TennisMenace made a compelling argument about Tommy Edman being the everyday CF. And there are many who believe that Edman should be the everyday CF without reservation.
Edman is one of those athletic infielders who easily transitioned to CF for St. Louis to open a spot for other infielders like Brendan Donovan and Masyn Winn. Maybe Edman’s transition was not as smooth as Jackson Merrill’s was, but it was more than enough for him to be moved to CF fulltime, where he continued to grow.
As Andy Pages proved last year, playing CF is not easy. As many games as Pages played out there, he really did not get better. Pages is a RF (with an ++arm) who can hold down CF if needed. Last year he was needed. This year, not so much.
While I agree that Edman can be the everyday CF, he could also be the everyday 2B with GG tools, and to a lesser degree, SS. Because of the versatility of many of the Dodger players, there are a lot of options they will be looking at during ST. What if Outman slugs and runs in ST, and Hyeseong Kim shows he needs more time getting comfortable with MLB pitching. Outman could be the CF and Edman could be the 2B, probably his most natural position.
Edman played all of 8 games in CF as a MiLB player. He first moved to CF on a semi-permanent basis in 2023. In 2023, Nolan Gorman (2B) and Paul DeJong (SS) began the season in those positions, but they were holding the spots for Masyn Winn and Brendan Donovan respectively. DeJong did not last the year as he was traded to Toronto at the deadline. Gorman was a 1st round draft pick in 2018 (19th overall), but has yet to fulfill his expectations. He is a veritable strikeout machine, and is now considered more of a role player. St. Louis would like to move him, but they are not going to give him away. He is a 25 year old with 2+ years of MLB experience. He can be a valuable bat off the bench, and start at 2B and 3B at times. I imagine he can 1B as well.
The Dodgers have been enamored with Edman for quite a while because of his versatility. IMO, they have always viewed him as a super utility player who can flash potential GG abilities at multiple positions. Not as much at SS, but he will not disappoint there. He is a contact over slug player who is aggressive at the plate. He does not walk a lot (below average career 6.3%), and he does not strike out a lot (16.6% career). He has a well below average ISO, so with the very limited SLG and OBP, his OPS is not going to overwhelm. But Edman seems to play at different level when he is needed. If Freddie was not the WS MVP, Edman would certainly have garnered several votes.
Last year playoff slash line for Edman – .328/.354/.508/.862. For the WS – .294/.400/.588/.988.
IMO, the Dodgers view(ed) Tommy as the heir apparent to both CT3 and Kiké. I do not expect either player to be on the LAD roster next year.
Contrary to others, I do not believe that a $74MM contract is not enough to declare that Edman as an everyday single position player. With his deferrals, his AAV is $13.049MM for 5 years while Chris Taylor is $15MM AAV. Edman’s NPV of his 5 year contract is $65.2MM or $5M more than Taylor’s 4 year contract. CT3 was never considered anything other than a Swiss Army knife super utility player.
Edman will play excellent defense in CF, but being objective, he would be the CF because the Dodgers have just one CF above A ball who can play CF every day, James Outman. Outman should get every chance to become the primary CF, even in a platoon role. If Outman falls on his face and Kim shows he can hit at MLB average and shine on defense, the decision is easy.
As a rookie, James Outman was very good in 2023. Played excellent defense. Ran a little – 16 SB against 3 CS. And hit very respectably. He slashed .248/.353/.437/.790 with an OPS+ of 114 and a bWAR of 3.3. All good enough to rank 3rd in 2023 NL ROY vote. He was also named NL Rookie of the Month twice in 2023 for both April and August.
His 2024 was at the very least forgettable. Outman started VERY slow. I his first 36 games, Outman hit .147/.250/.266/.516 in 124 PA, with 4 HR. He was optioned after May 16. He did not hit any better in July in a much more limited role.
2023 NL ROY, Dbacks Corbin Carroll, did hit better than Outman, but got a much longer runway. Through 6/30, Carroll hit .213/.305/.315/.619 in 348 PA, with 2 HR. Arizona was rewarded with their patience as Carroll had a great 2nd half.
There was something definitely wrong with Outman last year. It could be any number of things.
As indicated, Outman started out slow, and it could very well have been the pressure of not being able to get out of the massive slump. My wife is a huge Keanu Reeves fan, and she has seen The Replacements an estimated 100 times. Tears rolling down her face every time. There is a scene in the movie where Gene Hackman asks about what the players fear. After some comical comments on spiders, Keanu spoke up and talked about quicksand. I think of James every time now when my wife watches the movie after this scene.
Outman and his wife, Dasha, were expecting their first child. They made the announcement on April 5, but the pregnancy was throughout ST. Dasha is from the Ukraine, coming to the US in 2008. I have no idea if she had family here to help her through the pregnancy. I do not know if she had any complications. I do not know if she still has family in the Ukraine during the war. I do not know any of that, but it was their first child, and that is an issue for many of the players as they are away from their wives during this time. Maybe James did not handle that well. We will never know the reasons.
The baby was born August 26, 2024. James was out of the lineup from 08/21/24 to 08/31/2024. When he returned to the lineup, there was a different James Outman. For the month of September, in 84 PA, Outman hit .360/.429/.693/1.122, with 12 XBH, and a K rate of a much improved 21.4%.
For comparison only, for September with 70 PA, Dalton Rushing hit .230/.338/.459/.797, with 6 XBH and the same 21.4% K rate.
IMO, James Outman has earned the shot to compete for the CF spot. It will be up to him to show what he can do. He hit his way onto the 26 man in 2023 after ST. Perhaps he can do it again. If he impresses enough to assume the every day CF role, Edman can move to 2B where he should be even more comfortable.
At the very least, Outman should be considered the front runner for the #4 OF role because he is a LH bat, with speed, and a strong defense. Pages does not hit RH well, and that is who he will face the majority of the time. Either Pages or Outman will be in OKC to start the year.
Personally, I am pulling for Outman to hit his way back into the lineup. I think the Dodgers are better with Outman in CF and Edman at 2B, and Kim either on the bench or at OKC. Decisions will be made on Outman, Pages, and Kim during ST.
“Personally, I am pulling for Outman to hit his way back into the lineup”
Me too.
I am definitely pulling for Outman. I hope he crushes it in ST.
…”I think the Dodgers are better with Outman in CF and Edman at 2B, and Kim either on the bench or at OKC.”
yep got that right Jeff!!,
It’s there for the taking for him
I’ll take Outman on the thick side of the platoon in CF, with Edman on the thin side and otherwise freed up to employ versatility.
I’m optimistic about Kim making a successful transition. He is a contact-first, on-base hitter. If he profiled as a slugger, I assume he’d have a harder time catching up to ML velocity. The brass wants him to succeed. So he’ll get some of that “runway” and might soar or taxi off to OKC. We’ll see.
It’s bizarre to me when pundits say that maybe Dodgers coaches can “unlock his power.” He’ll be batting 8th or 9th. We just want him and his superior speed to get on base ahead of Shohei and Mookie.
Edman could shuttle between CF and 2B. He could also play some SS and 3B and be a weapon off the bench–a switch-hitter with speed.
As a hitter, Edman has been league-average over his career. He’s been hot since joining the Dodgers and maybe he’ll keep it up–but we shouldn’t count on that.
In terms of potential production, Outman has already proven he can produce 23 HRs and a .790 OPS over a full season. He has 22 of those HRs against righties–but in ’23 still managed an OPS near .350 against lefties.
If Outman had gone back to OKC and produced middling numbers, there would be little reason to optimistic. But he had a strong season, with that spectacular “dad strength” showing at the end. While we were monitoring Rushing’s progress, Outman was out-performing him.
The most ideal plausible starting lineup includes Outman in CF, at least in a platoon role.
I’ve been rooting for Outman ever since I saw him on TV during his first Spring. He was the athletic, swift young outfielder who seemed to run down every ball while bigger guys like Luke Raley and DJ Peters lumbered around. (I was high on Peters too, but it turned out that Raley was better.)
I used to be annoyed by platoons, but Roberts should liberally use his bench and what he calls “optionality” this season. Give the heavy lifters like Mookie, Freddie and Shohei more breaks and don’t let the role players get rusty.
In close games, it would be pretty nice to bring in Freddie as a pinch-hitter.
“Dodgers coaches can “unlock his power”
Gap power. Hit the ball and run to second.
Very well-reasoned. That ten-day stretch certainly is a compelling data point from which to draw hope. Virtually no chance both he and Pages make the roster together.
Well, AJ Preller has finally gotten even with Andrew for signing ex-Pads Snell, Yates and Scott.
San Diego is signing ex-Dodgers Connor Joe and Jason Heyward.
Not exactly a fair exchange.
Add me to the list of those rooting for Outman to force his way on to the roster. If he does, I could still see Miggy’s nightmare coming true and he being the one who draws the short straw and gets traded.
How do you see Jason Heyward fitting in that dugout with Tatis Jr. and Machado? Especially Machado. I guess it could work out for SD if Heyward can work with Tatis Jr. away from Machado.
Heyward will probably get the guy in a headlock and threaten him with bodily harm.
Heyward will look at him. Machado will freeze.
The Machado/Tatis/Heyward dynamic should prove very interesting. I think Jr might respond very well to Jason, but King Manny might get all bent out of shape about that.
It might work out beautifully or it might lead to JHey being an ex-Padre by the deadline.
On locked on Dodgers they said Shohei won´t have to qualify as a two way player again.
mlb obviousyl changed the rules on that.
That would be huge for the Dodgers .
Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jeff –
Good points on Outman; I did not know the off-field circumstances he was dealing with in 2024. I am rooting for him to return to his rookie form and hope he can become the everday CF. I think he should be given a long runway this year to do so. I would really like to see an everday player from the Dodger system again make it one of these days…
I also am pulling for Outman.Using Edman to platoon with him in center and Kim a 2nd makes sense. I would hate to see Miggy,the team leader,as odd man out. Would rather remove Taylor than Miggy
Much harder to do. And there are still numerous rumors about Kike coming back which further clogs the roster with utility players.
Of course it’s hard getting rid if Taylor,we’ve all discussed that ad nauseum. I’m just saying I would hate to see Miggy removed. Other than Taylor who else would you remove?
There really is no one else, but Kim can be sent to the minors thus making Miggy Ro safe. Kike is not on the roster yet, so he is not a factor at this time.
In my not so relevant opinion, Outman is the wild card here. We know what he is capable of, the question is can he get back to that level? Personally, I believe he can. He had some good games at AAA and looked more like his old self. Defensively, he is the best option in my opinion.
ESPN reporting that Arenado to the Dodgers talks have been re-engaged. Supposedly Gonsolin and Taylor to St. Loo with Arenado and money coming back. Not sure how accurate this is. Would change things dramatically.
I just don’t get why the Dodgers would want Arenado. Muncy cannot play 2nd in the post shift era. No way I’m giving up Gonsolin
Arenado is actually a few months younger than Muncy. Max had 3 WAR and is susceptible to injury. Arenado had 2.7 WAR and is an everyday player who still excels defensively. I’m thinking maybe the Dodgers spotted a hitch in his offensive giddy up, know how to de-hitch, freeing that giddy up for renaissance (just upper division tech speak for advanced biomechanical science. I wouldn’t expect everyone to understand the details of it) If successful Arenado can produce higher numbers hitting lower in this lineup. And Muncy? I like him too. Should this actually happen I wish him nothing but success with his next team.
Maybe Dodgers should wait until Max goes on the 60 and they get more info on pitching health before trading Gonsolin for Arenado.
Gonsolin’s projections look kinda iffy to me. Very few want Taylor around now that Edman and Kim are here. Frankly I don’t think either would be missed. The question is what to do with Muncy, though I don’t think he’d be that hard to trade.
Arenado is an every day third baseman who is not that far removed from a 7.7 WAR year.
I would hate for that trade to happen and hope it wasn’t Jeff Passan who reported that since he’s one of the most accurate reporters in the industry.
It’s not to be found on ESPN.com.
Perhaps a radio personality or podcaster?
Tight lips float ships.
You can quote me on that. I might be famous someday.
The “re-engagement” topic has resurfaced from a Jan 1, 2025 Sprting News article that was reporting a proposed trade from someone by the name of Jim Riley of BALLCAP Sports. In a recent YouTube video, Riley proposed a trade that would ship Arenado to the Dodgers for starting pitcher Tony Gonsolin and utility player Chris Taylor.
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/mlb/los-angeles-dodgers/news/dodgers-could-land-260-million-superstar-chris-taylor-tony-gonsolin/bd840f617d169bde9b579f28
It was picked up by Sports Illustrated on Jan 21, 2025:
https://www.si.com/mlb/cardinals/st-louis-cardinals-news/could-cardinals-still-trade-260-million-8x-all-star-to-dodgers-curt9
Yesterday a podcat, Dodgers Daily News, brought it back to life, but offered no other information.
Apparently this all emanates from a Jim Riley of BALLCAP Sports trade prediction sometime late 2024. It is all conjecture, not based in fact.
There is nobody of substance that I can find that believes this deal is a possibility.
Bear’s got substance. 6’ 250. That’s substantial.
Would I do that trade? Yeah, probably. I’ve wanted Arenado for a long time. But Muncy would have to go. That might be sad, especially if Arenado is finished.
The rumors persist, but at this point they are still just that. Yeah, I could make a lot of money if I sold myself by the pound.
Superb investigative reporting!
Many thanks.
The Arenado trade idea was discussed on ESPN LA radio a few days ago in a clip available on YouTube. While I don’t know if the teams are really considering it, I could see it working for LA to keep several guys fresh. I could imagine that Freeman might sit more this year coming off his surgeries, and that Ohtani might not DH every game when he returns to pitching. (He had far more at-bats last year with LA than he did in similar numbers of games played in two seasons with the Angels, though being in a better offense and batting leadoff likely explains some of the increase.) Muncy’s personal highs are 144 games and 497 ABs. We know Muncy can play 1B (and 2B, but with a shift), and Arenado supposedly is willing to play 1B. Could he play 2B on occasion to get in the lineup? It’s probably a stretch to imagine him getting enough ABs to stay happy only by picking up a few starts when lefties Muncy, Freeman, or Ohtani rest, but building in more rest for the everyday players seems like a logical next step now that LA has committed to a six-man pitching rotation.
Just saw a video o n Facebook of Chris Taylor taking grounders at first.
Excellent article Jeff. Good insights into Outman’s personal challenges during the 2024 season. The trade to acquire Edman and Kopech for Miguel Vargas last year may have been the best move of the season by Friedman. The Dodgers probably don’t win the WS without those two players in the playoffs.
I agree with Jeff that Edman is best used as a utility player. While he hit great in the playoffs last year, he is an average MLB hitter with limited power for his career to date. His career OPS+ is 100, his career high in HR is 13, he hit 237 and 248 the last two seasons with OPS of 705 and 711. His primary value comes from versatility and excellence on defense. I think Outman has more upside as a hitter, especially as a power hitter. Of course, Outman has more downside as well with the strikeout rate, but he should be given an opportunity to make the team in spring training.
It would be great if Outman could succeed and become an everyday Dodger. He was drafted by the Dodgers and could be one of the few starters who came up with the Dodgers. The Dodgers are much more an all star team of free agents now than a primarily homegrown team.
In reviewing the payroll on True Blue LA,https://www.truebluela.com/2025/2/7/24355017/dodgers-payroll-tanner-scott-kirby-yates, 12 Dodgers are making $13 million or more this year per the CBT payroll. Of those players, all came from other teams, although one of them, Chris Taylor, primarily came up as a Dodger. I like to see the young internal players succeed with the Dodgers, even if that has become the exception.
I usually have a favorite I pull hard for that is not yet a regular all star with hopes he will get some Shredder love. Guys like Loney, Pederson, and now Outman.
I am okay with him hitting against lefties as long as he keeps his obp up with OPS above .720 being mere gravey.
Edman is a natural at second. Kim is on the 26 as soon as Rojas and or Taylor aren’t.
Bregman at 3rd would be more of a sure thing than Max but his stats are declining and he wants a preposterous 6 year contract. Rather keep the future of 3rd base open for Betts or a young guy.
Arenado at 3rd instead of Max would help get Outman’s lefty bat in the lineup but he, Arenado, too would clog the options for 3rd.
Well kids, since I cannot stand Philly fans of any sport, I’m all in on the Chiefs today! Let’s see a 3peat and let Philly suffer even more.
Heading home to Colorado in the morning. Seems like I have been here forever. I will always be grateful to the VA in Long Beach for the great care I received. I also have prayers for the guys still there.
Out of curiosity, is there (or have you experienced) big differences in medical care depending on state?
Well, the VA was 10 times more attentive than Harbor-UCLA. A few years ago, the VA was under a lot of scrutiny because vets were dying while waiting for appointments and care. They fired most of the hierarchy and put new leadership in place. Now vets rarely wait more than 30 minutes. I get care locally because of a shortage of doctors at the Pueblo clinic. But I go to Colorado Springs for my eyes, Pueblo for podiatry, and I have to go to Denver for dermatology. Most everything else is local. It is much better than it was. Now crossing jurisdictions is not all that hard, but Eastern Colorado and Long Beach had to coordinate care.
Yes.
My experience? Minneapolis was outstanding. By far the best I’ve been to. Phoenix is awful. Prescott is ok. As is Long Beach. Martinez is below average. SF is so so. ALL of them are under a tremendous amount of stress. Simply put, they need more funding. A rating system that can be found online.
Kike’s back!!
Pending a physical.
They’ll just delay till all those guys go on the IL tomorrow and then there’s room on the roster.
The Kike signing probably blows up this article, I can’t imagine there will be room on the roster for Outman or Pages, unless Kim struggles badly, and they start him out in the minors. I believe they signed Kim intending him to make the big league team.
Don’t take this wrong I’m fine with bringing Kike back, I’m just making an observation
If I’m Outman I’d be sad.
If Outman has an outstanding spring training, he’ll be on the opening day roster, one way or another…………………….or he’ll be on some other team’s roster. He just needs to show everyone that the 2023 James Outman was the real one.
Anyone else recognize the Dodger Stadium PA announcer at the Superbowl doing the PA announcing?
Yay!! Kike’s back.
We only need him in October
For the record, I don’t care what position EDMAN starts….just as long as he starts somewhere. Like you said Jeff, he can play anywhere, and play it well.
Honestly, I can tell you that I don’t have this Kumbaya feeling for OUTMAN like you and a few other brothers here have. In fact, I actually think I’m rooting for KIM to rise up and surprise everyone and be a starter at 2B or SS, whatever position Mookie doesn’t play. There is something about KIM that intrigues me, besides his great defense. As for OUTMAN, maybe you are right, and his wife’s pregnancy got him out of sorts….so, I guess we shall see very soon if he can handle the Spring time pressure to see if and where he can be slotted into our roster in April.
One final note I would like to leave you with that I have considered….EDMAN showed us this past year that God may have blessed him to be one of our much needed October saviors. Perhaps even the Almighty was discouraged with our boys in the Post Season …seeing that we always (save the short season) would fall short in October after killing it April- September. So I’m thinking….if he did it once (Edman), I’m pretty sure he can do it again…and again. We definitely should want him in the lineup when it’s crunch time. As you know, just because you are an April to September superstar doesn’t guarantee you will be such in October. Ask Judge and I reluctantly will add Ohtani’s name, even though I know he was injured. Just to be fair.
Good talk…getting my popcorn ready for the Spring. -TM