Kiké Hernández is back. Okay. I am not so sure I understand the euphoria some are expressing. He is just another in a long list of utility players which the Dodgers seem to have an unlimited supply: Kiké, CT3, Miggy Ro, Edman, Hyeseong Kim, and I guess Mookie can be included. Just how many utility players do the Dodgers need?
With Kiké on the roster, the Dodgers projected bench is all RH:
- Barnes
- Rojas
- CT3
- Kiké
Since 2019, one of those players has hit the following:
- 2019 – OPS .794, OPS+ 107
- 2020 – OPS .842, OPS+ 127
- 2021 – OPS .782, OPS+ 107
- 2022 – OPS .677, OPS+ 89
- 2023 – OPS .746, OPS+102
- 2024 – OPS .598, OPS+ 73
While another is hitting:
- 2019 – OPS .715, OPS+ 87
- 2020 – OPS .680, OPS+ 81
- 2021 – OPS .786, OPS+ 108
- 2022 – OPS .629, OPS+ 75
- 2023 – OPS .646, OPS+ 74
- 2024 – OPS .654, OPS+ 85
Chris Taylor is the first hitter while Kiké is the second. So the Dodgers are going to carry a 5th utility player with well below average offensive results, just to have him on the roster in October?
So are the Dodgers going to send James Outman and Andy Pages back to OKC to carry Kiké on the roster?
If the Dodgers wanted Kiké, why did they sign Hyeseong Kim? Of course AF/BG/Doc can option him to OKC. But why? Just to have an aging below average regular season player on the roster because he has been good in October?
Now the 40 man has exactly 4 non-pitchers with options: Outman, Pages, Kim, and Feduccia. One of Outman, Pages, or Kim will make the 26 man. Without Kiké, 2 would have made the 26 man. For Kiké? A hitter with just one OPS+ > 87 season over the last 6 years?
IMO, it smacks of a little arrogance. The Dodgers think they are so good that they can carry a below average 5th utility player on the regular season roster just for the playoffs?
I will give Kiké credit for being a character to combat a clubhouse of stoicism. And I do believe that is an important trait for a player like Kiké. The Dodgers also have Teo Hernández to fill that role. Kiké is a fantastic clubhouse presence.
Maybe AF/BG should bring them all back (save Beuhler). We know Jack Flaherty wants to stay with LAD. Maybe AF/BG can continue to block the young pitchers and re-sign Flaherty.
I would not be shocked if the agents for Outman, Pages, Dalton Rushing, Alex Freeland, and Jackson Ferris have reached out to AF/BG to trade them.
I would have preferred the Dodgers give a legit shot to Outman and/or Pages rather than re-sign Kiké. But that is just me.
I wonder how much of Kike’s decline was related to his eyesight. He certainly started hitting better after he put on the corrective lenses. Perhaps he needed them in Boston.
I’m glad Kike’s back. I usually think that a strong postseason performance is random, but perhaps not for some players. Certainly Kike has a track record in that regard.
Spring training should be interesting. Injuries can create opportunities.
In a way, Outman and Pages are competing with Kim. This trio have the most to prove.
Understand I fully expect Kim to break camp with the Dodgers… but what if Outman shines and Kim struggles? Perhaps the brass really will send Kim to OKC to become acclimated and Edman will shift to 2B. Outman could share CF with Taylor or Kike. (Kike could also platoon some with Max.)
I feel a little guilty hoping that Taylor somehow gets traded. Perhaps he, Rojas and Kike could take turns straining their obliques.
Optimal lineup versus RHP:
Shohei
Mookie
Freddie
Max
Teo
Conforto
Smith
Outman
Kim/Edman
Flaherty went back to the Tigers on a front-loaded two-year deal for $35 million with an opt-out. If he has a good season, perhaps gets a long-term deal.
I don’t get this one. I think maybe the Dodgers expect the MLB rosters are about to expand. Or maybe Kiké is about to take CT3’s place on the roster.
Doesn’t make sense to me to put Kim in the minors. Give him major league money to have another utility player ready to go just in case?
Can’t wait to see what this really might mean. Feels like something’s up.
I know that, but I was probably unclear in that I was “thinking” trade deadline other than right now. My keyboard failed to write my thoughts. 😃
Normally I’m impressed with your opinion on thing’s Jeff, not this time. There’s a lot more to winning than numbers on paper. I can’t think of a word that describes the intangible Kiki brings but it was right there in these last two championships. Signing him sure makes a lot of fans happy and apparently lot of players too. That has to count for something. I have to believe there’s something cooking on the trade front. It makes the most sense. We all know the roster in October will be much different than the one in April
Numbers on paper only reflect quality of play on the field and as such show the quality of the contributions made by any given player. Without decent numbers on paper no team is going to contend for a title. We do have some players whose “numbers” are below average, but maybe there are no better options.
Don’t mind your going to bat for Pages [who can take over for Conforto in 2026 like Rushing can take over for Barnes] but Keekay is a better bench player right now. Rewatching Game 5 of the WS, he started both rallies and his baserunning in the 5th created multiple headaches for the Yankees.
Gavin Lux got the game tying RBI in the 8th inning of that same game, and that got him traded to the Reds so they can give Hyeseong Kim a roster spot.
Fair
I would not be shocked if the agents for Outman, Pages, Dalton Rushing, Alex Freeland, and Jackson Ferris have reached out to AF/BG to trade them.
Other than Ferris, if I were one of the others mentioned I would definitely ask for a trade. Outman had a fair shot in 2023 where the Dodgers let him work through his hitting issues to finish the season strong. In ’24 I would think his personal issues could have been a huge distraction as well as a normal regression in his second year.
I would have preferred the Dodgers give a legit shot to Outman and/or Pages rather than re-sign Kiké. But that is just me.
Totally agree with your statement above Jeff. I would like both Outman and Pages be on the Dodgers. I’m a big fan of Kiki, but it is a wasted roster spot. If somehow CT3 gets moved then OK. Kiki and CT3 are baically the same player. Fantastic where ever you play them defensively and hit and miss offensively.
I think Outman could be the power bat off the bench when he doesn’t start. Many might say “he needs to get regular AB’s”. Why? He will 28 in May. He is not a youngster that needs to develop. If he has a strong spring it could confirm that he belongs on the 26 man roster. If he fails in the spring, then trade him for a teenage prospect. Bottom line….free James Outman!
Carry on.
Okay, Ferris at AA is more of a reach, but I included him because he is blocked to reach AAA right now, and River Ryan and Gavin Stone are due back next year. I would also mention Kyle Hurt here, but he is destined for the bullpen and not the rotation.
AF’s recent praise about Kike’s ‘leadership’ may help explain why his clubhouse presence. In the past, I just thought of Kike as a fun-loving guy who keeps things loose. But it seems that Kike is delivering more than that.
If I was Outman or his agent, I might ask for a trade. But I see a clear path for Outman to at least share the CF job if he has a strong spring. If he starts out in OKC, who could be summoned to LA if any outfielder gets hurt, or if some problem prompts Edman to shift to 2B.
Selfishly I don’t want him traded.
I don’t think Kim starts in the majors, so the Kike signing doesn’t bother me as much as the Yates one.
I have a winner for best named prospect this year:
LoJackson (Lojackson?) Laya!
Why are you disillusioned with the Yates signing? He was arguably a better reliever/closer than Scott was last year. 33 saves out 34 save opportunities. Yates’ 3.3 bWAR is certainly better than Kiké’s 1.3. Because Scott was named the primary closer for the Dodgers, I would not expect Yates’ bWAR to reach that level this year, but combined with Treinen, Kopech, and Vesia as setup pitchers, the Dodgers should be gold once they reach the 7th inning.
Just don’t see the value in spending for a final bullpen piece when, for the majority, the bullpen has been very well built with minimal spend.
Yates rated 8th best reliever for 2025 by MLB top 10 players by position. What’s not to like?
On Access Sportsnet they reported Phillips is way behind in his throwing program due to a shoulder issue. They also referred to Nightengale and his report about Kopech’s arm issue. It sounds like Yates is insurance as well as adding to a solid bullpen. They also said Snell and Miller have been in camp for 2 weeks already. Betts, Rojas, Muncy and Smith were shown arriving at camp today. Ohtani looked good hitting off a tee and throwing off a mound. It looks like they’ve as ready for the season to start as the fans are.
Don’t miss the fact that we have had many injuries on our roster for the last several years. Muncy seems to go down annually for weeks and months each season. So to carry a 5th utility player doesn’t always fit the equation of stocking a roster. Someone or a few players that we are counting on will leave ST on the IL, thus all of these utility players will be perfect for our needs (hell, one of those five utility players may very well be on the IL to start the season). We all constantly say that we don’t know what the front office knows, now rest your mind and realize that we don’t know what the front office knows. I’m glad they have re-signed Mr. October, we often hear that the Dodgers need to win the WS, so now you have to realize that is a goal of the Front Office, Kike is one of those valuable post season heroes.
I’m not really a believer either on keeping an older player for 162 games at league average or worse for just 20 odd postseason games. Also, weren’t these the same arguments for CTK several years ago until he proved does really suck now. Stop blocking the youth completely.
Most blocked player on the roster is Wrobleski. In any other world he’d be a legit SP candidate.
I couldn’t agree more Jeff. Great take on Kike’s value to this team. Or lack of value.
How many swiss army knives do you need? And this all right handed hitting bench scares nobody. Some undeserving player needs to go and I hope it’s not Miggy Rojas.
I don’t see Mookie as a long-term shortstop. Maybe Edman, But Rojas is a far better shortstop. You need to watch Rojas, with a trained eye, in defensive drills you have an appreciation of the little defensive skills he possesses. It seems Miggy critics doubt his availability due to his age but that is speculation.
Mookie may be adequate to start, but I think he moves sooner than later for Edman and Rojas.
I agree with everything Jeff said about Kike. I don’t get it and again the Dodgers have slammed the shit-house door on their not so young prospects.
I guess this decision tells you just what the Dodgers think of Pages and Outman
I think it says more about what the brass thinks of Kike. AF’s recent praise of his ‘leadership’ qualities caught me by surprise. Pleasantly so. AF also stressed that Kike was unique to the Dodgers: that it would either him or nobody.
This team is simply loaded. Seems that the notion ‘you can’t have too much pitching’ has been extended to utility players as well.
I hope there’s a trade to ease the logjam and clear a path for Outman or Pages. There’s bound to be an injury or two.
What trade would be worth it for the ’25 season? Adding a discounted Arenado to share 3B with Max seems possible… but Kike can play 3B too, and outhit Arenado after he got the new specs.
Luis Robert is still out there… but the chatter has died down.
How about Pages + Wrobleski + Ryan Ward for a couple of decent prospects?
Phil – gotta be a trade or trades in the pipeline.
Robert Jnr and Arenado are both still out there and both would make us better.
The numbers just don’t add up, some players or prospects have to go.
I agree Watford. There must be something up AF’s sleeve. Move those chess pieces.
We don’t need anything.
the only weakness on this roster I see is defense at ss, cf and 3b.
I know Bear wil get on me immediately (😀) but a trade for Robert jun. would instantly and greatly improve our defense. He would play CF which would allow Edman and his GG defense to go to 2b.
We have a surplus of young arms plus Outman to deal with. I would be even willing for a small overpay to get Robert jun.
Wrobleski or Knack, Outman, Fiduccia plus a lower level guy like Bruns or Kopp or Karros for Robert jun.
Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
I certainly did not expect to come through this opinion post unscathed, and I am not disappointed. I am not a yes man for LAD. It would be pretty boring if all I did was to agree to every move the Dodgers make. I certainly agree with most, but in this case, not so much.
It is not that I do not appreciate what Kiké can offer, or what he has done in the past. Maybe the Dodgers should bring back Justin Turner and Kenley Jansen for their past accomplishments. JT has also performed well in October. JT is tied with Seager and Muncy with the most career postseason HR for LAD with 13. One more time with him as well? WS heroics did not bring back Walker Buehler or Jack Flaherty.
I fully acknowledge that Kiké is a huge fan favorite. I also acknowledge Kiké’s intangibles in the clubhouse. I also acknowledge how well he has played in October. I just do not see that as a necessity. Not enough to send younger players with more upside (and downside) back to OKC. What the heck, Outman and Pages both have 1 option remaining. Option them and then at the end of the season DFA them to make room for the next prospects who are not deemed good enough to play for the Dodgers.
What is AF/BG saying to Outman, Pages, and to a lesser degree Kim? The Dodgers need a 33 year old utility player more than them? I have to hope that Badger and others are correct, and there is more to come. And as much as I like Outman, I would hope he gets moved to a team he can play in MLB for. How much insurance in AAA do the Dodgers need?
Perhaps Kiké’s eyesight issues have been rectified. I hope so, but it would still not be enough for me. I believe it would not matter for some as long as Kiké was on the team. They are fans of Kiké, and I have no issue with that. Some fans comment that Kiké is all fixed now, but do not recognize that CT3 was injured for most of the year, and when he came back in September, just like Kiké he took off. Maybe this offseason he works to get the power back. Probably not so much. I know it is an uphill battle for some to believe that CT3 has turned it around as much as Kiké. Kiké’s eyesight gets the benefit of the doubt but not CT3’s injury recovery?
Some say Pages will be fine as he will come back in 2026 and take Conforto’s spot. Will he? He wasn’t considered good enough to stop AF/BG from signing Conforto and now Kiké. But everything will be different next year?
Maybe losing JT, Seager and now Buehler plus others who felt like core of our team that bled Dodger blue and were big part of our success is why fans don’t want to lose Kiki too. I know I get tired of losing them type players. It’s a good thing we bring in such quality replacements. I can’t wait to watch this year’s team. Golly
I hope Kiké is the WS MVP. My issue is that you believe it is a good thing that AF/BG bring in quality replacements. I am okay with that as well, but I am not convinced that those replacements are not already in the organization. At what point do the Dodgers let thier prospects take over? Their highly regarded prospects? A player who was #3 in NL Roy two years prior? Or a 24 year old OF who played a full year in MLB after losing nearly a year (2023) due to shoulder surgery. How long did it take for Bellinger to coee back from shoulder surgery? And yet Pages came back, dominated MiLB with 114 (PA), was promoted to LAD for his MLB debut, and was pretty good as a 23 year old rookie in 2024. But apparently not good enough for 2025?
I’m willing to bet they get their chance barring a trade in spring and possibly beyond to prove they belong more than others. If they shine when opportunity arises brass will find a way to get them on the field. I know it’s unfortunate in some ways they’re part of such a well stocked team. I’ve never heard it comes easy. If they have the ability, they can play their way on the playoff roster
Farhan Zaidi back with the Dodgers!
Excellent move by LA to send the spy to SF to screw them up even more. And now we get him back. Fantastic moves!
He’s going to be a special advisor, a nice vague title. Also going to be assisting Mark Walter with his other sports holdings, including the Lakers, Sparks and the Chelsea soccer team.
In other Laker news, new acquisition Luka D. knows how to get off on the right foot with his new fanbase. He’s donating $500,000 to the fire recovery efforts here and released a very nice letter to LA sports fans.
Bear is traveling early this week, and has a doctor’s appointment the day he gets back into Colorado. I have some commitments this evening and will not be able to get another post out. Hopefully there will be some Dodgers or baseball news to generate some additional comments until I can get another post penned.
As tedraymond would say…
Carry on!
Alanna had an interview with Andrew online today and he made a couple of interesting comments with regard to Kike:
1) It wasn’t Kike or Plan B. It was Kike or nothing.
2) We all know what Kike did on the field during October but his connecting with different guys in the clubhouse during the playoff run was possibly the most impressive display of leadership AF has ever seen. That’s quite the superlative, considering what we’ve heard previously about JT, Miggy, JHey, etc.
3) With Kike back in the fold, if Kim shows enough in ST to start the season in LA and Miggy is healthy enough to be on the roster, I would expect CT3 to be moved, no matter what it would take financially. And remember for every million they don’t have to pay him next year they’d actually be saving about two million due to the tax. As someone pointed out the other day, whatever that number would wind up being would probably be enough to pay for Kike’s salary.
I hope you’re right, STB. But I have not seen any desire on the part of AF to move CT3 at a loss of $. And I see no way to get out from under his salary. There have been some fans talk about packaging up other players to make CT3 more attractive and the Dodgers eating less $. I guess, better late than never, but I’ll believe it when I see it. It was a boat anchor contract that AF refuses to rectify.
You’ll have to eat those words when CT is voted 2025 NL MVP. 😎
Is .#3 above in relation to the Rizzo interview, or is it just opinion? All good either way, just trying to define….
Thanks for pointing that out. #3 is strictly my opinion.
Jeff makes a lot of good points about Kike’s underperformance in the regular seasons recently, and also about giving the young Dodgers an opportunity to perform. I will be interested to see the contract that Kike actually received, and suspect he took less to stay in LA.
But overall I agree with the Kike signing as a reward for being instrumental in winning a championship on and off the field. Friedman did a nice interview with Alanna Rizzo that STB pointed us to. Andrew was emphatic about Kike’s leadership skills in the postseason and his value to the team off the field. That value is not picked up by OPS or traditional stats. I have been critical of the Dodgers for letting so many homegrown players leave and lacking loyalty towards many such as JT, Bellinger, Buehler, Lux, Seager, etc. The Dodgers are now a team of high priced free agents with none of their top 12 paid players starting with the Dodgers, (although one, CT3, being a longtime LAD). I commend the Dodgers for bringing back Kike and rewarding him for his Dodger contributions. A little loyalty is nice to see.
Since getting glasses to correct a stigmatism Kike’s batting average & OPS increased substantially. His second half stats plus playoff performance prove it. He’s great in the clubhouse and the players want him, so it’s a great signing.
In perusing the depth chart at fangraphs Kim and Edman are starters. Pages and Outman are AAA outfielders. With Kiké’s signing and CT3 as a bench player there is no room for either player on the 26. Both of these players are ready for the Major Leagues. I still believe trades are going to happen .
Kenley Jansen is now an Angel. Although maybe only until July.
Was thinking in normal start of season rotation would probably line up Snell, Glasnow, Yamamoto, Gonsolin or May, Sasaki. In Japan be only right to start Yamamoto and Sasaki for their fans who are paying zillions for tickets and could realign rotation in home opener. We shall see and can’t come soon enough, I’m ready.
Good plan.
We all will be standing at the starting line for several weeks. Well, I’ll be sitting, but, it will be an anxious sit. Ok, I might be napping a lot, but while I’m awake…. oh who am I kidding. I don’t much give a sh*t until it warms up. May? Maybe.
Here is my attempt at justifying the Kike’ signing. He will platoon with Max at third. He replaces the planned trade of Taylor. It allows Kim to get innings at short in OK or allows Rojas to be traded to a team needing his leadership.
Bench/Platoon pieces:
Kike’
Kim/Rojas
Pages
Barnes
Outman starts in CF hopefully.
Count me in as one of the fans who absolutely wanted Kike to remain a Dodger. The guy as “it” when it comes to pressure and I think his confidence in crucial moments keeps the team more relaxed knowing someone will come through.
We do not need CT so please somehow move him away from us…somehow.
Lux has not been a clutch hitter and needed to be shipped to a small city where people and media don’t care as much. This lack of pressure should help him. Glad for him.
Outman will be on the bench and is a lefty, so we have one.
Bottom line for me….its pretty obvious to all, LA will make the playoffs…so we need to always be looking to prepare for the playoffs in October. I’m not that interested in April…we have plenty of April horses. October horses usually are much less.
Cheers, TM