This season many star pitchers have gone down with arm problems. And the top teams have not been immune to the problem. The Dodgers unfortunately have had more than their fair share of these. Gonsolin, Kershaw Buehler and May are all recovering from arm or shoulder issues. Since the season started, they have been joined by Graterol, Kelly, Brasier, Yamamoto. Glasnow is down with back problems. Kershaw is close to returning if he does not have pain after his next couple of re-hab stints. They are hopeful Glasnow will be better with just some rest. He is only 11 innings from reaching his career high of 120.
The Dodgers also just had to shut down Kyle Hurt with elbow soreness. That is not a good sign. Treinen was hit by a batted ball in spring training and lost some time. But it is the rising number of pitchers requiring Tommy John surgery, and arm injuries in general that have most baseball people calling for some changes.
There obviously is a need to change either the way pitchers are trained and then used, or a better program between starts that allows pitchers to build better mechanics and training exercises to reduce the strain on the arm. So far no one really can put a finger on why so many pitchers are going down with these kinds of injuries.
Buehler and May have both had 2 Tommy John Surgery’s. Surprisingly, Kershaw has had none. Most of his physical problems have been centered on his back. But last off-season, he had to have shoulder surgery. Just how good, or bad he will be remains to be seen.
There have been 38 pitchers so far who have gone down this season. Jacob deGrom is one of the bigger names. He did not make it past 6 April starts before he had to undergo his second procedure. All this right after he signed a huge contract with the Rangers. Shohei Ohtani also had TJ surgery over the offseason. Not long after he signed his historic deal with the Dodgers.
The list includes, Braves, Spencer Strider, Marlins, Sandy Alcantara, Rays, Shane McClanahan, Astros, Framber Valdez, closer Jose Bautista, Guardians, Shane Bieber. The Rockies lost German Marquez and Antonio Senzatela. Yankees ace, Garret Cole, had some elbow issues. Some think he is going to need Tommy John at some point.
These injuries are reaching epidemic proportions. At some point in time, MLB is going to have to have some serious discussions about solutions. Many believe that one of the contributing factors is the pitch clock. Pitchers can no longer take their time between pitches. It has reduced the game times overall, but does it really contribute to the rash of injuries?
Another probable cause could be the higher velocity that most pitchers today are capable of throwing. Of the arm injuries at the end of last season, 31 of the 64 pitchers who went down were the hardest throwers in the league. Just like they now look for hitters with the three true outcomes, they search for high velocity arms with huge spin rate.
We all know Tommy John’s history. He was the first pitcher to have the surgery performed. Dr. Frank Jobe, the Dodgers team doctor at the time, devised the procedure in 1974. Tommy John, who had gone down with an injury to his UCL in 1974 after pitching in 22 games for the Dodgers, was his guinea pig. At the time, no one knew if it would work.
John missed the entire 1975 season. He returned to the Dodgers for the 76 campaign and went 10-10. He made 31 starts and pitched 207 innings. In 1977, while the Dodgers were making their run to the pennant, TJ won 20 games and lost 7 with 220.1 innings pitched. In his last year in L.A., he won 17, lost 10 and pitched 213 innings. John would pitch until 1989. Fourteen years after having the surgery. He also won 20 games or more twice after he left the Dodgers. He finished with 288 wins.
TJ never got that ring, even though he pitched in three World Series, all of them involving the Dodgers and Yankees. He lost twice with LA,77-78, and then was a member of the Yankees when the Dodgers beat them in 1981. He had probably one of the best post TJ surgery careers of any pitcher. 
It will be very interesting to see how baseball address’s this issue over the winter. We know that many are concerned about the rising number of injuries in players who are obviously stronger and bigger than their predecessors. How does MLB and the players union respond? Huge amounts of money are being paid to players who are not playing. I wonder how the owners of the Rangers feel getting only 6 games out of deGrom before he went down.
The effect of all of the injuries this season is reflected on how bad the Dodgers have played over the last several weeks. They have lost four of their last five series and just were swept by the Phillies. Three games until the All-Star break. The team definitely needs a breather. Hopefully no one else goes down to a debilitating injury.
Bad night for LA’s farm teams except the OKC team. Rancho lost to the Stockton Ports, 5-3 in a game they once led, 3-1. Portland used a 4-run 7th to take the lead. Kendall George hit his first home run. Meza, Albertus, and McLain each had two hits. Wallace got the loss. The Great Lakes Loons were no-hit by three Ft. Wayne pitchers and lost 9-1. They scored an unearned run in the 7th inning. Tulsa was shut out by Corpus Cristy, losing 4-0. Ortiz-Mayer took the loss giving up just one run in his 5 innings of work. He walked 4 and struck out 3. Drillers got only 3 hits, 2 by Ramos. OKC beat El Paso, 6-4. They scored all of their runs in the first four innings. The went ahead for good with a 4-run 3rd inning. Every player except Okey got a hit. Six different players drove in runs. Avans hit his 7th homer. Dryer got the win with 1.1 clean innings. Choi started, went 4.1 innings and gave up 3 runs. 2 came in on a homer by Battens. Hahn got his first save.
Austin Barnes comes up huge. Ohtani delivers! I really thought Shohei hit that one out.
So did Shohei. And probably everybody in the ballpark and at TV.
Graterol pitched a scoreless inning yesterday at the ACL. Good sign!
Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kersh goes today for OKC.
Kersh, 3 innings, 5 K’s 1 walk, no runs, 38 pitches
Michael,
Regarding your post, is Mark Prior the right guy for this job? All of this has happened on his watch and Doc’s, for that matter. Do they not share this misfortune that has come to haunt this franchise?
I also wonder if Glasnow has hurt his back or this is just an excuse to rest him for the push into the 2nd part of the season. I could see nothing wrong with him when he pitched last.
BTW, I was able to log on very fast this time.
Mark Prior is an excellent pitching coach. He is one of the best at spotting flaws in a pitcher’s mechanics. I think the uptick in injuries is not just because of one specific thing. The pitch clock might be part of the problem. Pitchers in tight situations used to be able to walk around the mound and take their time before having to pitch. I don’t think the way Doc uses his pitchers has anything to do with the injuries. Most relief pitchers rarely pitch two days in a row anymore. I believe that much of this can be traced back to the desire to have pitchers throw harder. And they start doing it earlier. Sports medicine has changed so much, the injury to Yamamoto would be much worse had he pitched in the 60’s because back then, you were fighting every time you went out there for a job. Koufax and Drysdale were both in their early 30’s when they had to retire. Glasnow reported a stiff back. That could be caused by many things, including a long plane flight. I think it also gave the Dodgers a chance to give him an in-season blow so he would be strong for the second half. Remember, he is only 9 innings away from matching his career high. Injuries to pitchers are way up all across baseball. Pitchers are not trained to go deep into games anymore. 6 innings is considered great. And more than that is a plus. What makes all of this so alarming to baseball, is the fact that so many of the pitchers who have been injured, are some of the best the game has to offer. But I cannot see placing blame on any one person. It is the system that is faulty.
It is a systemic problem across all of baseball. It would be a different story if it was just happening to the Dodgers.
Exactly. Drew Smith of the Mets underwent UCL reconstruction surgery yesterday. He will miss the rest of this year, and maybe next season also. Nick Ahmed was released by the Giants.
Be sure to read all the links provided:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/nursing-and-health-professions/ulnar-collateral-ligament-reconstruction
Kirschner Wires and SwiveLocks. High tech metal cables (most yet to be developed, it will take Terminator technology). This is all MD and PhD level science.
Bottom line is excess velocity is the cause, and that approach begins in Little League. They aren’t going to prevent these injuries because the human body isn’t designed to throw overhand and certainly not with these loads. As I have mentioned here a few times the arm isnt designed to swing underhanded (duh). For those who never have, go to your local fastpitch softball park and watch the Open League or A League pitchers. They throw shit Major Leaguers would have trouble hitting and they can throw it without injury game after game all weekend long. Would it work from 60’? I have no idea but clearly what is being done now isn’t working.
If baseball is going to continue to insist on velocity and spin rate the answer, the ONLY answer, is to decrease workload (90 pitch, 130 inning MAXIMUM limits) and increase recovery time (6-7 man rotation with NO throwing between starts.
This won’t stop. Too much money involved.
All great points Badger. I agree with your assessment of the cause and the ONLY answer to maybe help prevent arm injuries. In regard to the money aspect, how could a GM justify paying a starting pitcher $20M-$25M-$30M for only 130-150 innings a year?
I’ve stated in the past that the reduction of a starting pitcher’s workload was because the teams desire to reduce the high salaries for starting pitching. And, there is a continual supply of prospects to fill that role. Potentially make millions for a limited time. Get injured. Rehab and either return to pitch or retire having made a few million dollars. Why things happen? It’s usually about money.
“how could a GM justify paying a starting pitcher $20M-$25M-$30M for only 130-150 innings a year”
My take? It’s based on WAR. At $8-9 million per WAR (depending on where you look) it’s quite possible for a pitcher to get between 3-5 WAR on 130 innings. I recall Rich Hill doing that on fewer than 130 in 2016. 76 innings with Oakland, 2.9 WAR, and 34 innings with LA, 1.4 WAR. And he’s a guy who did it by pitching, not by throwing.
“It’s usually about money”
“The answer to all your questions is money” – Tony Kornheiser several times quoting Don Ohlmeyer.
Good conversation starter today Bear. This whole arm problem is hurting the game for fans. I want to watch Paul Skenes and Tarik Skubal pitch and I wonder how long I will get to do that?
Great post Badger. You are spot on about going to the park and watching some fastpitch.
My dad was a top notch fast-pitch pitcher.
He was a very good baseball shortstop. In 1944 he attended a fast pitch game while in the Navy in Hawaii. He was taken by a pitcher named Elmer Rohrs, who captured my dad’s imagination. Dad found a poor sailor to catch him and the kid did more fetching than catching. He couldn’t hit the side of a hangar. And I believe they were pitching from 38 feet or less in those days. By 1947, dad was skilled enough to be pitching for something called the VJ-7 Squadron in the service. In 1948 and out of the service, dad’s team finished 3rd in Washington State behind J.A. Terteling who had a pitcher named Eddie Feigner. Eddie abandoned 9-man softball Terteling lost their contract and Eddie took the shortstop, catch and first baseman and started “The King and His Court” a 4 man team and hit the road in 1950.
To your point Badger about the durability of the underhand motion, my dad won a state tournament in 1956, throwing
7 games in 3 days.
This Women’s College season, NiJaree Canady, threw every game for Stanford in the World Series.
It is an intriguing thought of pitching underhand in baseball. The challenge, as I see it, is the mound. Softball pitchers threw uphill, if you will. Baseball pitchers throw downhill. The reason baseball hitters struggle hitting fast pitch, without practicing, is the rise-ball. It’s a look you don’t see in baseball. So trying to throw underhand off of a mound would be interesting. I wish my dad was around. I’m sure he tried that out somewhere.
I have comically mentioned that we may not be far from steel cables replacing a UCL. So your comment “Kirschner Wires and SwiveLocks. High tech metal cables (most yet to be developed, it will take Terminator technology). This is all MD and PhD level science.” Takes my thought to the next level.
Lastly, does anybody really think that taking 10 extra seconds between 100mph pitches is going to matter in keep an overused, frayed UCL from giving out, eventually? 30 pitch inning may be a problem, but extra seconds being a remedy? I don’t buy it. It’s more like stubborn pitchers wanting to piss around on the mound and do things their way. They don’t like the rule and want to find an excuse to toss it out
I did some fast pitch pitching in the Army, and I had a sore arm at the time. I had fallen on my shoulder while I was in Korea. Throwing overhand hurt like hell. But I could use that windmill underhand throw with ease. Since I threw left-handed, my fastball acted like a screwball. Got a ton of movement on that pitch.
“If you had told us in Spring Training we would have been where we’re at with our starting pitching I would have doubted it.” Dave Roberts.
Lack of foresight?
Somebody the other day said something like “the fact that Buehler is outside the organization getting help is a tell”. My apologies to whoever said it but whoever did was spot on. And it isn’t Prior’s fault. The Dodgers need to up their game when it comes to keeping starting pitching healthy.
Thank you. It was me. And agree it has nothing to do with Prior. MLB pitching coaches design strategy, pitch calling to be passed on to the catchers based on opponents and pitchers repertoire. As was said they can spot mechanical problems either visually or film. They do not develop or teach or rehab.
Well, their strategy today sucked big rocks.
Was it the strategy or the execution? Vanasco has yet to show he is a MLB pitcher. Wrobleski is a rookie and #8 or #9 or #10 in the rotational depth chart. That’s two straight blown saves for Phillips. Trend or anomaly? KC got Hunter Harvey.
https://apnews.com/article/baseball-velocity-training-injuries-0c67c7a76125a79e5142d216935f7bd0
Would theDodgers be willing to include Bobby Miller in a potential trade for either Crochet or Skubal (if available). Yes, Bobby is not on top of his game at the moment but he still got ace stuff.
Would a package of Miller, Rushing, Frasso, Knack, Hurt be enough for either Crochet or Skubal ?
Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
“Would theDodgers be willing to include Bobby Miller in a potential trade”
Good question.
Another good question is would other teams be interested in Miller.
Yes.
Not at his ceiling value.
Very good article Bear. It was an amazing procedure that allowed so many pitchers have an opportunity to achieve their dreams of pitching or continue pitching in MLB and making millions of dollars.
But, to me, it has become a determent to the game. It’s throw caution to the wind as far as pushing the boundaries of the human body’s capabilities because the TJ procedure is available to put a pitcher back together again. That can all be justified because of huge amount of money involved. The surgery is now being done on eight year olds.
Good point. So now, how can the genie be put back in the bottle?
That Wayne, is the $64 thousand dollar question.
(probably up to $64 million by now)
The funny part Ted is that for years it was thought that a man could not find more velocity of any significance. Besides growing up and maturing, a guy was stuck with the velo God gave him. Maybe a 3 or 4 mph jump, maybe.
The use of high speed cameras and search for efficient mechanics by folks like Tom House, Ron Wolforth, led to things like Driveline and Cressey Sports Performance where technology can find huge upticks in velocity. Now every MLB team has a pitching lab. What was thought impossible is now a reality. Now dad’s can realistically dream of turning a skinny, long, 15 year old into a Paul Skenes with 100mph velo.
So here’s the plan – take your kid to Dick’s Sports, outfit him with a $350 glove, a jock, fancy shoes, take him to the Orthopedic surgeon to get a steel cable inserted for an ACL, and send him to Driveline. See if he can throw 115 by 2035?
It is weird because Bobby Shantz, who stood maybe 5’6″ tall, had a very decent fastball for his time. He won 42 games in a two-year stretch, 51-52 for the woeful A’s. He was the top pitcher in the AL in 52. If they had had the Cy Young then, he would have most likely won it, instead, he was the AL MVP. But the next year, he only pitched in 10 games. He would pitch until 1964. His days as a starting pitcher after 1952 were basically over. His fastball disappeared. But he became a decent relief pitcher.
Koufax did not really retire from arm problems. It was the arthritis that caused his problems. But Big D, rotator cuff, Erskine, constant elbow soreness, which probably was some sort of UCL thing, Karl Spooner, he also felt something go in his forearm, all went down before all this technology was available.
Blue. You asked me yesterday if i thought Isaac Paredes would be a good trade for 3rd base.
Yes. Pepiot and Isaac Paredes from the Rays would be awesome. Vargas, Miller, …
I’m going to ask the same question I did when you brought up Pepiot a few days ago. Keeping in mind that the Rays trade good players so they won’t have to pay them, why would they trade Pepiot who is costing them basically nothing?
Glad we could agree on Paredes, though.
Simulator says (for Paredes alone)
Rushing, Vargas, Ryan or
Miller, Outman
Take your pick.
Miller I would only lnclude in a package for a true ace pitcher like Crochet or Skubal..
Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Rays could better use two low cost controllable pitcher next year than have one such this year. Let me paraphrase a great philosopher to sujpport my claim:
“Wimpy:
I’d gladly pay you one for today for two hamburgers tomorrow..
Maybe the Rays would roll the dice on May. They would possibly wind up with two Aces plus Rushing, Vargas.
The Dodgers need innings now and if most of the injured don’t return, it won’t make a difference if they add Crochet who isn’t void of longevity concern.
I think they would be more willing to include Elfin instead of Pepiot. Expand the deal and get Arozarena to boot. Vargas, Outman, Rushing, and a couple more minor league arms.
Robert jun is heating up. OPS now around .800. I´d throw in Vargas and Outman in my above trade suggestion for both him and Crochet.
Parades over prospect time for the Dodgers
Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!!!
“I´d throw in Vargas and Outman in my above trade suggestion for both him and Crochet”
Me too.
Strike ‘em out throw ‘em out one inning, E-6 unearned run the next. Dodger baseball.
It will get better.
I wonder what type of talent we could acquire if we traded Biggio
Friedman would have to be on both sides of such a trade
I’m trying to come up with something clever. I got nothing.
2 nights at the Belliggio Hotel in Vegas.
Hey, that’s better than peants.
A bag of Peanuts?
A part time clubhouse attendant and two tickets to the Ice Capades.
2 all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, onions, on a sesame seed bun. That is about all he is worth.
None. None type of talent.
Go get Robert’s if u can AF. Pages is no cf and doesn’t have the playoff discipline at the plate. With runners on base pages is very undisciplined. I think he is in our future plans but as a rf. Outman has totally lost confidence. He is like a deer in headlights at the plate just can’t pull the trigger. He is capable defensively, has power, speed and should hit righties but I just don’t c any confidence. I would rather have Taylor in cf.
The good thing about young pitchers is youth and potential.
The bad thing is we are currently constantly reminded that the Third Time Through penalty is really resonant for young pitchers.
Additionally, after his recent 0-for-18 slide, Gavin Lux is 5 for his last 12 after his two-run single in the fifth.
That RBI single was just a couple of inches from being another one of his many ground outs to 2B.
And vice-versa
The Dodgers have claimed RHP Brent Honeywell off waivers, per source.
Honeywell is a former top 100 prospect. Reliever. I think he throws (threw) a screwball!
I remember seeing him pitch in the Future’s Game a number of years ago and being very impressed, but he’s had a lot of injuries throughout his career.
Maybe we’ll catch lightening in a bottle here.
He has been better of late. I think the Pirates just wanted the roster spot.
Holy crap.
well that happened rather quickly
As Walter would say, oh what an ugly ending to a game they should have won. Snatched defeat from the Jaws of Victory. Worst loss of the year.
That was….
poor.
That’s as embarrassing a loss as I can remember.
Indeed it was. It continues to baffle me that the Dodgers find themselves repeatedly stuck having to run out pitchers like Vanesco and Ramirez in clutch situations.
Embarrassing says it all hard to believe what’s happened to Phillips
Two blown saves. He got the win in one.
At least the Tiger fans go home totally ecstatic witnessing something you hardly ever witness- coming back from 5 down in the last inning. In a way, I’m kind of happy for the fans and the Tigers for finishing the job in the 10th inning. To lose would have been such a pity to have not finished the comeback.
It reminds me of some tennis games I was recently involved in. Me being down 5-0 in the all important 3rd set….then to tie it 5-5…..but ultimately to lose 7-5. Bummer….all that way back but couldn’t close the deal. Makes the comeback now seem irrelevant.
So, I think I will rejoice in their good fortune today…knowing that our boys recently did something similar against the Dbacks. As I recall, we were all on Cloud 9 for it, especially me. I played the replay of our ending at least 5 times. Let someone else experience that feeling too. -TM
Well — maybe the silver-lining is that this confirms (urgently) the need for more starting pitching. The bullpen must be exhausted.
What it also means is that there are too many AAA pitchers in the bullpen and on the roster.
Anyone remember this game: Dodgers have up 2 in the 8th and 9 in the 9th to lose 12-11. Jose Offerman booted two double-play balls along the way. I watched it on TV 🙁
https://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/LAN/LAN199008210.shtml
That was just embarrassing. Vanasco will probably be the roster victim since the Dodgers claimed Honeywell from Pittsburgh. Ramirez should not even be in the majors either. So, I could see him, and Vanasco gone by tomorrow’s game. River Ryan might get called up. There have been rumors that it could happen. Kershaw starting for OKC at 5:05 PST. 6:05 here. I am going to watch that game on MLB.TV. All-Star break coming at exactly the right time for this banged up squad. I wish all of them were not going to the All-Star game at all. They could use a break. And I am altering my stand a little. I think AF needs to make an early strike into the starting pitching market and get a bat to boot while he is at it.
Ryan pitched 5 innings on Wednesday. He won’t be pitching until after the AS Game.
Ramirez has been far from perfect but he’s had more good appearances than bad. He’ll be gone soon enough but definitely hasn’t been a total disaster.
Honeywell has no options remaining. They might just use him tomorrow and then DFA him. He had lots of promise at one time. Maybe he’ll pitch well enough to get a stay of execution.
Truly embarrassing loss. And we burned through the bullpen with a bullpen game tomorrow. Will they find a starter from AAA to burn some innings?
The cloud hangs over this team. Despite some success, this was the worst starting line-up I’ve ever seen for a Dodger team. Pages hitting clean up? The bottom 5 were all hitting about .200 or less. I’m surprised they scored 9. Way too many strikeouts again with RISP.
While they seem insignificant at the time, little mistakes matter. Where in the hell was Pages going when he got doubled up at 2nd on Lux’s liner to first. That’s a friggin mistake in Little League and it cost us a run.
I don’t think the All-Star break is long enough. This team needs about 2 weeks off.
One of the most deflating losses I’ve ever witnessed.
Got that right. DePaula just activated off of the IL.
Can he pitch?
LOL
Is anyone surprised at the Dodger’s latest disaster?
This organization needs change. And it should start at the top. Friedman, Gomes, and Kasten all need to go. Bring in some baseball people, not finance executives. Bean counters should never be running a baseball team.
More losing to come unless major changes are made.
I hope Bluto and his annoying little sidekick enjoy the losing!
Phillips blew a save. Yes, I’m surprised. He’s usually good at closing things out.
Scott, you of all people should know that is not going to happen. Kasten is a part owner of the franchise. He could resign as the President maybe, but he isn’t going to do that. AF is not getting fired. Ownership loves the guy. As for Gomes, he is the only one that could be fired if they wanted to. Nobody enjoys losing and they still win more than they lose. The reality is they are a really banged up baseball team. May will not be back, he had surgery on his esophagus. They have five starting pitchers on the IL. Kersh, Buehler, Yamamoto, Glasnow, and Sheehan. You could add Gonsolin to that list. They are missing their heart and soul, Mookie Betts, and their slugging third baseman. Do you think they would be 26-24 in their last 50 games if both those guys were in the lineup? Major changes will be made. This is not a franchise that is going to just sit there and let the team completely tank. Today was an anomaly. Not something that normally happens. But in baseball, stuff does happen, and it can go south really fast.
I know that Bear, but let’s not make excuses. Injuries happen to all teams, but the Dodgers made the decision to waste roster spots on guys like Lux, kike, Biggio yohan, Taylor, Heyward, etc. They are the ones not making changes. They are the ones who continue to roll out the same guys game after game.
Theyve run out of players in July. Who’s fault is that?
It is not an excuse and that is not what I said. I said you should know they are not going to fire any of those guys. Hey, the roster is AF and Gomes’s baby. If something goes wrong, it is all on them. They I totally agree wasted some of the roster spots, especially on Biggio, Kike and Taylor. But how could they have guessed that Lux would be as bad as he has been? They expected more from Kike and Taylor. But you also should know they are not going to stand pat with what they have. They are in first place by seven games over SD and Arizona. SD has played 2 more games than the Dodgers have. Arizona is 7 games back in the lost column and SD 8. They have 4 left with Arizona, 5 with San Diego, and 4 with the Giants, who they do not see again after the series week after next at Dodger Stadium. There will be changes, and we both know that. I am pretty sure the whole front office realizes this is not a championship roster at this point. Biggio will be the first one to go. Taylor is untradeable, he will most likely stay. They can release Kike and not lose much. I know they will target starting pitching and outfield and infield help at the deadline. AF rarely trades before that date. Although he might be forced to make an early trade to get one or two of the pieces he needs. Yes, injuries happen to all the teams, but what the Dodgers have lost is far more than most. By the way, Kersh was really sharp at OKC, 38 pitches, 5 K’s one walk and no runs in his three innings.