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Dodgers Excessive Pitching Injuries?

Below are the LAD pitchers who have either started and/or subsequently placed on the IL before the start of the season.  I have divided the pitchers into 3 groups: Pitchers who started the season on the IL, starting pitchers being placed on the IL during the season, and relievers being placed on the IL during the season.

  • Tony Gonsolin (current baseball age 30)  – TJ surgery September 11, 2023
  • Dustin May (27) – Right flexor pronator strain surgery and TJ surgery clean up, July 18, 2023. Season ended with esophageal surgery.
  • Walker Buehler (29) – 2nd TJ Surgery, August 23, 2022. Activated May 6, 2024. Back on IL on June 19, 2024, with right hip inflammation.
  • Nick Frasso (25) – Shoulder labrum tear surgery November 23, 2023. Reported as relatively minor, but then again that is the Dodgers reporting.  When I read labrum surgery, I harken back to the long rehabs of both Hyun-jin Ryu and Julio Urías.
  • Clayton Kershaw (36) – Glenohumeral ligaments and capsule surgery, November 3, 2023. Activated July 25, 2024.  Back on IL on August 31, 2024, with left big toe bone spur.

 

  • Tyler Glasnow (30) – Lower back tightness July 9, 2024, and 2nd IL with elbow tendinitis on August 16, 2024.
  • Yoshinobu Yamamoto (25) – Rotator cuff strain June 16, 2024, on IL July 13, 2024. Activate September 10, 2024.
  • Bobby Miller (25) – Right shoulder inflammation, April 10, 2024, activated June 19, 2024.
  • Gavin Stone (25) – Right shoulder inflammation, September 6, 2024.
  • Kyle Hurt (26) – Right shoulder inflammation, April 20, 2024. 2nd IL stint due to elbow injury, July 26.  Hurt had TJ surgery July 30, 2024.
  • River Ryan (25) – Ryan suffered a UCL strain in a start against Pittsburgh on Aug. 11. Had TJ surgery, August 25, 2024.
  • Emmet Sheehan (24) – IL on March 19, 2024 (general fatigue, shoulder, and finally elbow). TJ surgery May 15, 2024.

 

  • Connor Brogdon (29) – Right plantar fasciitis, April 10, 2024.
  • Brusdar Graterol (25) – March 19, 2024, with right shoulder inflammation. 2nd IL August 7, 2024, hamstring.
  • Joe Kelly (36) – May 6, 2024, right shoulder posterior shoulder strain. Activated July 19, 2024, and went on 2nd IL on August 31, 2024, with right shoulder inflammation.
  • Blake Treinen (36) – March 19, 2024, with fractured ribs from ground ball. Activated May 5, 2024.  2nd IL on August 5, 2024, with left hip discomfort.

Bolded pitchers still remain on the IL (11).

 

Dustin May first TJ surgery was May 11, 2021.

“I wouldn’t say that I ever felt more than probably 75 percent. It hurt every throw. Everybody always says it always hurts (after Tommy John surgery) and then one day it just clicks. I was waiting for that. Mine – instead of getting better, it kept getting worse and getting worse. It kept climbing in the wrong direction.”

— Dustin May, via Bill Plunkett of the Southern California News Group

 

That is 16 pitchers on the IL at some point in 2024.  Some had two IL stints.  Including Dustin May, Tony Gonsolin, and Walker Buehler, Dodger pitchers had seven elbow injuries, including 6 TJ surgeries and 1 right flexor pronator strain surgery; 9 shoulder injuries including 2 shoulder surgeries; 2 hip injuries, and varied individual injuries including plantar fasciitis, big toe, broken ribs, hamstring, and back strain.

Of course the Dodgers are not the only team to suffer significant pitching injuries, but no team has suffered injuries to 16 pitchers. Why have the Dodgers suffered more than other teams? Dodgers management have stated they are looking into possible reasons for their abnormally large number of injuries.  How serious are they in their research?

Max velo and enhanced spin rate are reported as the primary reasons for the increase in injuries.  The Dodgers are at the forefront for looking for velo and spin, and I would presume (correctly or incorrectly) that they are not going to alter their focus.  Are they going to continue to overdraft pitchers to facilitate necessary depth, anticipating injuries?  Are they going to continue draft pitchers with significant injuries as they have the last two drafts?

Some have pointed to the use of the pitch clock. River Ryan hinted at that being a factor. Some have speculated that it is partially due to the loss of sticky stuff.  Regardless, there are a myriad of reasons that the Dodgers, and to some degree MLB, are looking into.  How much MLB is concerned is not known.  It is going to be the MLBPA that will need to lead the study on behalf of MLB.  Somebody needs to protect the pitchers.  MLB is not nearly as concerned with the pitchers as they are in shortening the game.

I will not hazard to guess as to what the Dodgers will do in the offseason with respect to pitching while they are in the middle of a pennant race.  But there will be changes to both the rotation and bullpen, and I will have fun speculating.

 

 

 

 

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Michael Norris

I think his injury history was a huge reason why LA did not come close to offering him a long-term deal. In his 10 years in the majors, he has played four full seasons. He did play in 52 of the 60 games in the pandemic year and all of the post-season games. He has averaged 102 games a year.

Bluto

If you read only one tweet comparing Kack and Miller’s FB today, it HAS TO BE this one:

https://x.com/brownsonjacob2/status/1834341578690945265?s=46

tedraymond

Bluto, thanks for saving me the time of not having to go through the many tweets (X’s) comparing K(n)ack and Miller’s fastballs. I usually do that on Wednesday, but I got busy and I was going to do it today. Sarcasm alert!

I know you’re the messenger Bluto, but this kind of analysis doesn’t interest me at all. It’s another example of taking a simple game and over analyzing the crap out of it. I mean “Induced vertical break” and “Vertical approach angle”? WTF?

I can’t break down a pitcher’s throwing motion, etc like Phil Jones, Badger, therealten, or others on this blog. But, I can watch Knack pitch and look at the results and tell he is a pitcher. He proves that velocity isn’t everything. With Miller, I can watch him and see he is a thrower and doesn’t know how to pitch at this point in his career. He has the talent to be a very good pitcher, but the mental aspect of his craft needs to be improved.

I can appreciate the effort Jacob put into his analysis. For me, analytics suck the fun out of the game. I’m old. Give me BA, OBP, K rate, and now OPS ( thanks Badger!) and I’m good. With pitchers it has gotten to the point where analytics and high speed camera analysis have completely taken the joy of possibly watching a pitcher struggle with trying to throw a complete game. Or a no hitter. And, finally, not getting injured.

It’s the same limitations for every starting pitcher? Third time through the order? Pitch count reaches 100? Left or right hand hitter? All of these reasons are used to protect the pitcher from injury and fatigue to keep him fresh for the postseason. How’s that worked for the Dodgers this season and the past couple of seasons? It’s this reasoning above that management and coaches hold true to protect pitchers. But, they don’t think the FACT that velocity, spin rate, and grip an effect on a pitcher’s arm? Throwing a pitch is not a natural motion for a human arm at any velocity. Maybe, today’s pitchers have reached the limit on what an arm can endure without injury. Oh no, it’s the pitch count!

Put the pitch clock back to 30 seconds. Like other rules they are put into place to help keep the players safe and keep the game entertaining. If they feel that the pitchers are being rushed between pitches and that may be causing injuries then change it now. Most pitchers have no issue throwing the ball in a timely manner.
If it helps keep the pitcher healthy then the fans won’t care about a few extra minutes. Who goes to a game hoping it will be over as quickly as possible?

Bluto, sorry for hijacking your post. I enjoy it when you post the various links from different sources. You used to do that about once a week over at LADT. But, this current injury epidemic with pitchers has me concerned about the future of baseball. How can a fan try to follow a favorite pitcher when they pitch a season or two, get injured, have surgery, rehab, and then try to make a comeback which will probably include other visits to the IL? I know I’m having trouble doing so.

Carry on.

Last edited 2 months ago by tedraymond
Michael Norris

I agree Ted, the game is friggin over analyzed. Juan Marichal and Warren Spahn once pitched an extra inning game that both completed, and both threw over 200 pitches. It was July 2, 1963. Spahn was 42 years old, and Marichal was 25. The game went 16 innings and ended on a Mays homer off of Spahn in the 16th inning. Marichal threw 227 pitches and Spahn 201. Both were working on 3 days’ rest, and both made their next scheduled start. Spahn later complained of a sore elbow, he went on the IL twice but managed to win 20 games for the final time in his career. Marichal also won 20 that year. Neither Spahn nor Marichal ever had arm problems until late in their careers. And neither had their career ended by an injury.

OhioDodger

Damn, I miss those days.

Michael Norris

Same here, some of the best baseball I have ever seen. And played on less manicured fields with smaller gloves. Some players may have been big, but none were bulked up, which is one reason I think they over do the workouts. You did not need to hit 450-foot bombs, and pitchers would get you out with finesse. Hitting .300 was an art form. Contact baseball and fewer strikeouts. Even the power hitters were hitting .300 or close to it. Miguel Cabrera was the last triple-crown winner. Aaron Judge is 14 points behind the AL leader in BA< Witt Jr. But he is way ahead in homers and RBI’s. Someone asked the other day if anyone thought Ohtani was not the best hitter in baseball. Well, he is obviously very good, but not the best. Right now, that would be Aaron Judge. He is the only hitter with an OPS over 1.000. Miss those Koufax-Marichal, Gibson-Drysdale matchups.

OhioDodger

Spot on. I don’t think Ohtani is the best hitter in baseball. Strikes out too much and leaves lots of runners on.

Northmsdodger

If Ohtani simply tried to get abasehit. He would hit 375.

OhioDodger

He could certainly hit over .300 and drive in 140-150.

Phil Jones

Long winded way to say Miller lacks command in the strike zone.
We know that.

Bluto

LOL

You think that’s long-winded?

Worse, that’s nowhere near the point nor conclusion of the post.

Are you sure you read it?

Phil Jones

Bluto, this wasn’t a personal attack on you. It was a critique of the content of the article you posted, which I did read.
It was long-winded, at least for me.
And during the conclusion it stated “For this reason, it’s reasonable to assume that Landon Knack is going to see increased success on the fastball, and Bobby Miller is going to keep getting slugged until he improves his fastball location”. Fastball location seems very much like command in the strike zone to me.

Bluto

You claim to have read it twice and missed the fact that it’s about fastball movement?

not one mention, not one, of command or control

Phil Jones

Okay Bluto, I’m just a shitty reader and misread this very short and concise information.
I did read your advice below however:
“Cheer up! Enjoy life!”

Bluto

Yes!

Michael Norris

Friday’s game is on Apple+.

porpoiseboy

And Sunday is ESPN. Bad series for me

tedraymond

It’s not right porpoiseboy

porpoiseboy

Sorry I wasn’t sure I understood. You mean it’s not right that they don’t put every game on MLB TV? Or it’s not right that the Sunday game is on ESPN? I just looked it up again and it sure said sunday’s game was on ESPN.
Cheers

tedraymond

Sorry. That was confusing. It’s not right that you can’t watch the games because they are3 being hijacked by channels you don’t subscribe to. See comment below.

tedraymond

I wish MLB would do what the NFL does when home team’s game is on a streaming service. They allow their regular local station to televise the game.
To do this at this time of the season is BS. In this case Apple-.

OhioDodger

Fans paying for MLBTV should get the game even if it is on Apple TV.

Michael Norris

Yes, I can watch it there but it is with their announcers, who are not my cup of tea.

OhioDodger

I still follow most games on the radio. Like the old days.

Watford Dodger

Ferris could be better than Buehler

dodgerram

Lets not forget how good Buehler was before his 2nd TJ surgery. Without him there is no WS title in 2020

Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!

Michael Norris

Without Walker, they are a wild card team in 2018.

Badger

Just watching him my first thought was nice whip action with his arm. A lot of strikeouts but questionable control. He’s probably throwing too hard. Comparison to Buehler could be correct.

It doesn’t appear there will be any effort made to change the approach with velo and spin rate. It will continue to be emphasized. I still say looking at mechanics might help, but even Mike Marshall admitted pitchers are throwing harder and harder. Is there an answer in conditioning? If there was one would think it would have been found by now. Maybe the answer is in surgical procedures. Build Terminator arms through surgery.

Until the answer is found expand rosters to allow extra pitching, use 6 man rotations with limited innings and pitch counts, up the pitch click to 24 seconds, and follow the Japanese and Korean lead with pre-tacked baseballs. I’ve even had discussions with friends about doing all of the above, raising the mound a couple of inches and counter all that by extending the fences a few feet in every park, using a restricted flight balls to slow exit velocity and allowing corked bats, though that has been proven to be a myth:

https://www.popularmechanics.com/adventure/sports/a6793/the-machine-that-shatters-baseball-myths/

There are things MLB can do to protect pitchers but they won’t do them. The money is flowing like the Mighty Mississip and baseball won’t do anything that might change that.

Last edited 2 months ago by Badger
Phil Jones

All good suggestions to explore and consider Badger (until the raising the mound, extending the fences and limited flight baseballs, part). I’m even willing to extend the pitch clock although I doubt that’s a cause. But if that makes the clock critics happy, I’m all in for 24 seconds. And a tacky baseball seems like a no brainer.
I have mentioned similar things to explore, especially training methods for pitchers (I’m not sure Graterol was fit when he throws 5 pitches after rehab and immediately pulls a hammy going for a swinging bunt) and rethinking innings management and pitch restrictions.
I too was thinking about what a 6 man rotation and what it might look like. The key for me would be what’s done in the 5 days between starts. Perhaps, 2 of those days would have more emphasis on stretching and conditioning, and maybe playing catch. (all this is assuming the pitcher is healthy. There is typical post-throwing muscle soreness that needs to be flushed, which isn’t joint pain). The 3 days in the middle involve lots of throwing but less pitching. Flatground work, short-pen maybe and incline work at reduced velocity. Day 3 a full bullpen, perhaps at 95%.
The pitchers all have individualized plans, through consultation with the pitching coaches and trainers. Each knows their plan starting the day after a start ie. Days 1. It’s mapped out through Day 4. On Day 5 some guys want to throw lightly, while others don’t.
The goal would be to safely extend workloads during the season to build arm strength. Pitch counts in April are not the same as August, yet the pitch counts either stay the same or decline during the season. It works in reverse, to me. The 5 innings and 85 pitch count limits are the same out of spring training as they are in September. Fear of overuse and injury encourages pitching less. I’m not convinced that’s the way it should work. And I could be dead wrong.
Perhaps the Asian pitchers, who pitch once a week, generally, don’t have the velocity and spin of the US pitchers. But how do their injuries compare to MLB?
I’m way more into exploring these type methods, instead of where we are headed; disposable pitchers, little steel cables for UCL’s, braces that act as restrictor plates on a NASCARs to limit speed, or 3 inning, 50 pitch outings.
Inevitably, it’s possible that there is no better methods. We just learn that throwing a hundred miles an hour will make your arm fall off.

Badger

https://jballallen.com/tommy-john-japan-and-the-future/#:~:text=Japan%20is%20no%20longer%20an,taking%20the%20next%20day%20off.

Be sure to check the Sawchik and James articles linked. Interesting reads on the topic being discussed. Change speeds, even on fastballs, location, two seamers. All ideas work and de-emphasize velocity.

The larger fields, restricted flight balls and mound raising ideas are only interjected as ways to help pitchers get more outs. I realize most fans prefer the home run. But I’m still old school in many ways. I like doubles and triples.

I was a double Major in college, PE and Education, and I recall learning in a Phys of Ex class that condition levels (both strength and endurance) could be maintained working to max levels once a week. That being the case I would make the argument that pitchers could take the entire 5 days off between starts and not lose arm strength. I’d recommend running and stretching but no throwing between starts. Recovery. I think more emphasis needs to be put on it.

Last edited 2 months ago by Badger
Bumsrap

I would keep the pitch clock as it is and add a few timeouts to give the pitcher a short breather here and there.

Therealten

Changing the subject a bit. Dave Roberts and Betts apparently whining about it is not as fun with all these World Series expectations. Who created those expectations? I said way back Robert’s should shut his mouth about “World Series or busts” It’s embarrassing for him to keep saying it when they haven’t gotten out of the first round the past 2 years. He could change the psychological narrative if he would just say we are underdogs until we prove different. It’s arrogant to act like we are the favorites. Just prove it and then talk. Mb then they would have more fun.

concerning the GOATs post. Now we know why but what are the chess players doing about it. Whatever it is not helping Bobby Miller.

Badger

The Dodgers are the favorites realten. And they should be. But you’re right about Roberts saying it. It’s the truth and everybody knows it but shut up about it. In my opinion the less Roberts says the better.

Miller. The hope is each time out he will get better. Or maybe each time out he won’t get worse. With 16 left and no Glasnow or Kershaw in sight Miller has to go out and try again when his turn comes up.

Remaining schedules are discussed in The Athletic this morning. The Dodgers is second easiest to the Phillies. The real question is will they get a #1 seed.

Badger

As you were, the Dodgers have the easiest schedule remaining at .464.

Last edited 2 months ago by Badger
Therealten

I agree with you on all points if our pitching is healthy.

going into the season I was really expecting a huge year out of Bobby Miller. He came out and dominated stl with11 ks. I was thinking he might become our number 1 or at least challenge for it. He went into Chicago and fell apart. He just has not recovered. As desperate we are for sp I know why they trot him out there.

As far as the schedule I would prefer they finish second. I like the matchup with the Mets, Milwaukee, or Atlanta better than Arizona or SanDiego.

Michael Norris

I prefer they get the 2 seed. Then they don’t have to play the winner of San Diego-Arizona. That would be on the Phillies.

OhioDodger

I am with you on that.

Bobby

The weather in Atl the next 4 days has the rain forecast as 70% today, 80% Saturday, 60% Sunday, and 50% Monday.

This could get really ugly if the games keep starting and stopping and we have to use 10 bullpen guys per day (granted we’re kind of used to it).

Bluto

What is going on today?

We have posts on injuries, complaints about analytics and streaming rights and worries about the weather!

Life is amazing, the Dodgers are near the top of MLB!

Cheer up! Enjoy life!

Michael Norris

Hum Bah bug.

OhioDodger

You forgot to mention the broadcasters.

Phil Jones

I’m no doctor of physical therapist and I’ve never had a bone spur. But a couple of things about Kershaw’s Big Toe, interest me.
1) if he’s had that problem for awhile, why wasn’t it addressed when he was on his long rehab from his shoulder surgery. Maybe it didn’t hurt while he wasn’t pitching but it had obviously hurt before.
2) How long does it take for modern treatment to ease the pain? Shots in the toe, pain relievers, anti inflammatories, and all the modern toys can’t get him back on the mound?
I don’t want him to pitch injured risking arm injuries but day-to-day has become week-to-week with no end date.

Michael Norris

I have one on my left big toe. It is very hard to walk as every time you put pressure on it, there is a shooting pain that goes right up your leg. But, as soon as I feel it, I take Indocin, an anti-inflammatory I have used for years when I first had gout. My gout has been under control for over 30 years, but that toe still has the bone spur. Have one in each elbow too.

Singing the Blue

So do you want the good news first or the bad news first?

Bad news: Glasnow was supposed to throw a sim game today. Warmed up in the bullpen and went straight to the clubhouse.

Good news (and yes, I know you don’t believe this Bear): Doc says there is a possibility that Shohei might pitch in the playoffs, depending upon how his rehab goes. So far it’s going well, supposedly. Also keep in mind that Shohei may be our only healthy pitcher by October so may have to be the starter for every game.

Doc did say it was far more likely that Ohtani would be used in relief than as a starter.

Last edited 2 months ago by Singing the Blue
Singing the Blue

I was probably exaggerating slightly above. He basically said not to rule it out, but didn’t really indicate it was a major possibility.

Badger

He might could pitch an inning in the World Series. That’s a long way off.

So is Glasnow done?

Kershaw. Inject the toe with fentanyl and throw him out there.

Bumsrap

Cut it off and stop using digits to do math.

Michael Norris

Believe it or not, it is a dumb idea to risk reinjuring his arm at this point. If they do it, and he gets hurt, well, that is on them.

Bumsrap

Which of the 12 possible pitchers are you talking about?

Michael Norris

Ohtani pitching in the playoffs.

Singing the Blue

Where is Rich Hill when we need him?

Michael Norris

Hopefully retired.

dodgerram

Glasnow felt discomfort in his elbow while warming up for his sim game today.

https://www.truebluela.com/2024/9/13/24244182/tyler-glasnow-elbow-discomfort-dodgers

Not looking good. You can almost feel TJ surgery on the horizon.
Would be a huge blow to the Dodgers WS hopes.

Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OhioDodger

I love tiny Tyler. And his tiny gorgeous hair.

Badger

Base hit my ass. That was another error on Muncy. Should have been a double play.

OhioDodger

Yep.

Cassidy

Well this is a waste of $ for 3 tickets to this game! Now we have another starter who can’t be allowed to pitch in October!

Badger

Didn’t matter.

Bobby

I sure wish the rain forecast was more accurate.

Singing the Blue

If we’re lucky we’ll get rained out for the next 3 days.
Tonight we’re facing a no-name pitcher and getting clobbered. \
We still have to face Sale and Fried.

Michael Norris

Not an auspicious start.

Cassidy

This rookie pitcher for the Braves has legit stuff. He’s pitched at a high level for them since first of July. Lux should have waited and sat on a fastball there!

OhioDodger

Lux has cooled off considerably the last two weeks.

Cassidy

Great job by Grove so far. Keeping us in this game. Stadium gun has his FB at 97! If he could add a change up he could be a starter

Last edited 2 months ago by Cassidy
Michael Norris

Ward hit a 3-run homer in the first inning for OKC. His 30th of the year.

Cassidy

Just something missing with this team. Half the time, like tonight, they just look bored to me!

Jeff

I’d like to see the season shortened……maybe to 150 games or so.

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