Early start for game 5 of the series. Jack Flaherty against David Peterson. Freddie back in the lineup, and to my surprise, Will Smith starting a day game following a night game. Would have thought that Austin Barnes might have gotten the start. Lux also not starting. Dodgers first inning started off very well with Ohtani singling and Mookie doubling him to third. But the next 3 hitters, Hernandez, Freeman and Edman made outs. In the bottom of the first, the Mets got a single from Lindor, a walk to Nimmo. Vientos struck out. Then Pete Alonso hit a ball that was very low in the zone over the center field fence for a 3-run homer. Mets up 3-0. Winker grounded out, Marte doubled, Taylor walked, and McNeil flied out.
Dodger second, Kike walked and Muncy struck out. Smith lined out. Pages singled Kike to third. Peterson threw a wild pitch and Kike scored with Pages moving up to second. Ohtani walked and Betts popped out to first. Mets second, Alvarez doubled, and the next three Mets were retired by Flaherty. In the top of the third, the Dodgers managed only a single by Edman.
Bottom of the third, the roof fell in on Flaherty. Alonso and Winker walked. Marte doubled driving in both. Taylor and McNeil made outs. Alvarez singled scoring Marte. Lindor tripled scoring Alvarez. Nimmo singled to score Lindor and Vientos grounded out. 8-1 Mets. Dodgers got a run back in the top of the fourth on a homer by Pages. Honeywell took over for Flaherty. Alonso was hit by a pitch, Winker tripled to score Alonso, 9-2 Mets. Taylor was hit by a pitch and McNeil hit a sac-fly to score Winker. 10-2 Mets.
In the top of the fifth, Edman struck out. Kike was hit by a pitch and Smith flied out. Pages then hit a 3-run homer to deep left. Stanek took over for Garrett. Ohtani struck out. Honeywell got the Mets 1-2-3 in the bottom of the inning. Betts homered leading off the sixth. That would be all for the Dodgers. Mets scored single runs in the 6th and the 8th and the Dodgers were shut down the rest of the way. MT wins, 12-6. Game 6 is Sunday. No starting pitchers announced.
Pretty sure it’s a bullpen game vs. Manaea (or however you spell his last name.)
You spelled it right! Extra bonus points.
It will need to be a gutsy, low scoring win similar to game five with the Pads. Manaea is for real.
Agree on your forecast
He can be beat, any pitcher can. He gave up a couple of runs and only pitched 5 innings. They can score more than that off of this guy. Just need the pitchers to hold the Mets down.
We’re in a good position. Mets had to win 1 in LA to shift home field advantage in their favor and did so. We had to win 2 of 3 in NYC to shift home field advantage back in our favor and did so.
Two homes game to win 1 to advance to the WS.
Would have been fun to trash the Mets visitor clubhouse instead of our own in the celebration.
I would have loved the win there today, and then a nice stressless weekend, but we should all be happy with 2 out of three in NY. I doubt any of you guys were really expecting the boys to sweep the Mets any way.
No. I was certainly not expecting to sweep the Mets in NY. Two out of three was somewhat of a sweet surprise..
Agreed. But if the chance to sweep them and end it right there you should do it.
Starting a sick JF was a bad choice. Even worse decision was to not get him out after the 2nd when the game was still close.
As much as we have given Roberts credit for his decisions so far that one warrants criticism. IMHO.
Many observers agree.
Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DR’s choice. I read his explanation for not pulling him after two innings. I did not know he was sick. My personal thought was that they should have used a bullpen game yesterday and kept Flaherty and Buehler for possible games if needed. But when they had to use both Treinen and Phillips in the game four win for more than 20 pitches each, Phillips made 34 and Treinen 23, that kind of shot that idea down because neither would be available. If he pulled Flaherty after the second inning, they would have needed to cover 7 innings with the bullpen. No guarantees those guys pitch as well. At least now, they all will have 2 days rest.
Sending a sick pitcher out there is/was highly questionable.
Looks like a bullpen game on Sunday and Buehler on Monday if needed.
Buehler on Monday without a safety net (i.e. the entire A-cast BP tired from pitching the previous day) spells trouble for the Dodgers.
If a rested reliever throws one inning they can usually pitch the next day.
Yes, but chances are they’ll be less effective that next day.
Just as good as the chances they are nails. I have seen our guys have plenty of stuff two days in a row. Three? That might be too much. And no matter what, it will be all hands-on deck.
Man, Emanuel Clase has completely lost it
It’s being reported that Roberts will talk to Freddie about sitting out game 6. Doesn’t think he’s swinging the bat well.
At this point, I would bench Smith, Teo and Freddie. Put Taylor in left, move Muncy to first, Barnes in to catch and Kike at third. I would go ahead and start Lux at second if he is healthy enough.
Pages, not Lux
Pages can’t play second base. He would be in the outfield with Taylor and Betts.
Play Taylor at 2B, Pages in CF, as Duke suggested.
I wouldn’t start Taylor if the choice was:
Taylor, Joey Gallo or Cavan Biggio.
At least Taylor has a hit in this series. And based on his postseason history, he is a better postseason hitter than any of those guys. If Lux is healthy, I bat him 9th. The only other option is put Barnes at second and start Smith at C. Just spit balling here.
Shohei DH
Mookie RF
Teo LF
Max 3B
Kiki 1B
Edman SS
Smith C
Pages CF
Taylor 2B
And in non-playoff news, an mlb.com writer reports that Zyhir Hope has been a big standout in the Arizona Fall League. It would be great to have a true breakout prospect.
I agree STB I don’t see Lux starting against Manaea whether Freddie plays or not. If Freddie is in it’ll be Kike, if Freddie sits it’ll be Taylor.
Teo’s slumps never last too long. Of course this one might last two more games and be a problem.
Not sure I’d start Lux against Manaea, a crafty lefty.
Pages’ nice game today assured himself of a start in game 6.
We need to start CT3 on Sunday. It would be absolutely fitting if he knocked in the winning run after the season he’s had.
Yankees up 3-1 vs Cleavland. No magic comebacks for the Guardians tonight.
Yanks probably should have swept this series already if not for that miracle comeback in Game 3 by CLE.
Yankees look really good. Would be a formidable opponent in a WS.
Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well, had a bad feeling as soon as we could not score after 2nd and third with no out in the top of the first.
Teo, FF Smith really are in bad slumps. FF obviously is hurt and not close to 100 percent. Debatable if it would be better to sit him on Sunday. Teo now something like 0-18 in this series. He is due to come up big if the season is any indication.
Smith ? Hmmm, not much confidence looking at his weak at bats.
Flaherty did not have anything today. No velo, no location, no nothing. That is the second clunker start he has produced in this postseason. Should be taken into consideration when thinking about giving him a big contract for multiple years.
Before the series I would have been elated knowing we would be up 3-2 going back to LA and I still am. But we have serious concerns in our rotation . Understandable with all the injuries. Honeywell for another game had to wear one for the team and did so in an admirable way.Roberts clearly managing for Game 6 and Game 7 (if necessary).
Bullpen game vs Manaea on Sunday. Tough customer who held our offense in check for 5 innings last time out. Won´t be easy to end the series against him.
Dodgers thinking about sitting FF vs Manaea. In that case I would play Mookie at 2b, Pages in RF, Kike at 3b and CT3 in CF. We need offense vs this tough LHP and Mookie at 2b gives us the best lineup possible. Plus it is the best possible defense too at this time.
Mets bats have gained some momentum too. Nervous time on Sunday for sure but nobody said this was going to be easy.
Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I missed this game as it was aired at 4am, my time. Beauty sleep is more important at my stage of the game.
When I turned on my computer to get the score, I was indeed surprised to see such a high scoring game. I guess the Mets just vented. Glad they did because I fully expect the Bums to whoop ass tomorrow. Bull Pen should be raring to go.
I agree with most of what has been said in here after this clunker. Hate to admit it but because of Flaherty it turned into a giveaway game. Honeywell is like seeing Grove to me. Any game those guys are in a game the Dodgers are in trouble.
Maneae obviously can be beat. But going against the him and the Mets in a bullpen game with Freddie out, CT in, and Teo and Smith on the schneid sounds plenty scary to me.
Ordinarily I would say the Dodgers up 3-1 they will win. But with this pitching staff there is nothing ordinary about it. I think they will pull this off but it’s going to take a team effort to do it. If the bullpen game doesn’t work you can bet the A cast relievers will be going back to back on Monday.
Doc could have managed this differentyl. JF did not have it from the get go.
Could have taken him out after the 2nd down only 3-1 . Robert folded very qucikly, not giving his offense a shot to make up that 2 run deficit. Very much like in Game 2.
That is two games now where he could have gone with his high leverage arms and an off day coming up.
If that backfires question will be raiised.
Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and now Roberts says JF was under the weather. Wow, so he knew that his starter was under the weather and still sent him to the mound and to make it worse did not take him out when he clearly did not have it ?
Wow, this looks not good.
Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wait! If the “leverage guys” pitch one inning each on Fri and then have a day off on Sat aren’t they ready to pitch one inning the next day on Sunday?
Which makes it questionable why those “leverage guys” weren’t tried in game 5, ..unless the idea is to use them 2 or more innings on Sunday.
The Dodgers’ brass withheld going a full-fledged, A-cast BP game for both game 2 & 5. They’ve waited till game 6 to finally pull the trigger on this maneuver. We’ll see how it works out.
With the exception of his Honeywell comments, this made perfect sense to me.
Really ? Sending out starter who was under the weather and not at 100 percent instead of going with your A-bullpen game and holding Flaherty back until Game 6?
Really?
Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
..and Flaherty pitched game 4 on less-than 4 full days rest.
This is not on Doc. The game plan was Flaherty for 5-6, and unless needed late for a victory, save the A list relievers for Game 6 in LA. So he was under the weather. What were the options? Go with Knack? The game got away early. Not his fault.
Flaherty, 162 innings, 3.17 ERA, 3.2 fWAR. Nobody on the Dodgers came close to those numbers. Most of his success was of course with Detroit, and one has to wonder if maybe the Tigers, an eventual playoff team saw something in him that said trade him. He’s 29 years old. He, like ever starting pitcher on the staff will warrant 6-7 man rotation. I think he’s worth a contract extension but I’d be careful with it.
Game was not lost at 3-1 after 2 innings. It got away when Roberts allowed JF to go out again for the 3rd inning. Then it got to 5-1 and Doc folded.
Exactly what he did in Game 2. That is two games when he deliberately decided not to rely and go with his high leverage guys with an off day coming up.
IMHO tough to defend those decisions. Made even worse when it as known that JF was under the weathter.
Doc put all his eggs in Game 6 (and Game 7) while he could have had Game 5 too.
Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So what would you have done?
I wonder too about the Dodgers brass withholding their high-leverage BP guys in 2 & 5, for an all-out A-cast BP assault in game 6. Yeah, hindsight is 20/20, but if this obvious strategy doesn’t work, the second-guessing will begin.
The Game 6 match up —
Dodgers fully-rested A-List bullpen pitchers
vs
Mets SP Manaea (on short leash) PLUS their fully-rested A-List bullpen pitchers, w/all-hands-on-deck SP’s.
I see a drawn-out, low-scoring, nail-biting game.
The problem is Freddie/Teo/Will for various reasons are struggling at the plate.
They need to get to Manaea early in game 6 ..or this entire series could turn on a dime.
Finding out that Flaherty was under the weather and not 100% paints a whole new picture of Roberts/Front Office and the decision to start him in game 5. Could have went with a bullpen game and rested Flaherty for game 6 when he would be 100% or close to it.
Also, knowing Flaherty was ill, why did Roberts stay with him so long. He clearly was struggling mightily. Especially with an off day Saturday.
That is exactly the point.
And he has now done that twice. Game 2 and now Game 5. He deliberately wasted two games by not sending in his high leverage guys with an off day coming.
That is two less chances to get Win Nr. 4 in the series.
Could haunt the Dodgers in the end.
Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!
I ask again, what would you have done?
No Badger what they all would have done was to trade for Cease, Burnes, and Scott.
Still wondering why it wasnt Buehler in game 2 and Yamamoto in game 3
Would have gone with a bullpen game with our high leverage guys and pushed flaherty back to Game 6.
Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think with Flaherty under the weather, I would have also elected to hold him back until game 6.
Absolutely. Before we knew he was sick I said go with Flaherty and bullpen game in a potential Game 6.
But opting for a sick Flaherty Doc basically gave away one game to close it out.
IMHO a cardinal mistake to give a team like the Mets new momentum . Not saying the bullpen game would have been successful but as I said you betrieved yourself of one more option with a healthy Flaherty in Game 6
Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!!!!
Monday morning managing.
You bring your high leverage pitchers in at that point in the game, then ask them to pitch a bullpen game, more than one inning, you risk a lot.
Doc knows his staff better than any of us. It was always doubtful we were going to sweep in NY. Now we have two games in LA to win it. If we don’t win it there then maybe you can start barking. It’s too early for that now.
After the Dodgers won the first 2 in NY, it became a lot LESS “doubtful” they could sweep there.
Finding out that Flaherty was ill and not 100% completely changes the equation. You don’t send your kids to school when they are sick. You call off work when you are sick.
“Under the weather” can mean a cold. It doesn’t mean he had bronchitis, pneumonia, and covid all at once.
I go to work when I have the sniffles. I work out when I have a cold, and I’m not an athlete. Nobody knows what “under the weather” in Flaherty case really means in Jack’s case.
Well, it tells me he was not 100%. There may have been better options.
Please name a pitcher who is 100% in October.
No, not MMM.
Exactly the opposite. I said before the game I would go Flaherty over the bullpen game but I also would never start a sick starter over a well rested A bullpen in a game when I can clinch.
The option was a sick Flaherty or a well rested A bullpen with Flaherty gaining two extra days to feel better and go Game 6.
Suggesting that this is MMM is just a strawman argument because some fans will never question DR and the frontoffice suggesting they know better than us fans. This is such a lame argument . BTW not shared by many experts out there.
Sure, Dodgers might win Game 6 or Game 7 and this discussion is moot but in a general, strategic view it was a bad pre game decision.
Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What if they did a bullpen game, held Flaherty for Game 6, and Flaherty got even sicker by Sunday? We don’t know what his illness is and there is no guarantee of him being well by Sunday. Those particulars might be know by the Dodgers’ trainers and doctors. What would the Dodgers do if Flaherty wasn’t available Sunday? Knack me that! Lol.
Dodgers may have bungled this one. If they fail to win the pennant, they clearly botched it.
Dodgers loss ensures World Series will start on Friday.
Obviously, a disappointing result in game 5. The game started nicely for the Dodgers. When they failed to score, especially after Ohtani’s base running blunder, I had a bad feeling about the game. That was shortly confirmed. To score six runs and lose adds to the disappointment.
To find out that Flaherty was not feeling well and still went out to pitch, now, seems like a bad decision. And, to leave him in and let the game get out of control does not make sense to me. It wasn’t good for Flaherty’s mental or physical health and certainly not good for the team. Watching Roberts’ after game thoughts was the usual word salad and not very useful. Regardless, he made the decisions he made and it is what it is. Monday morning QBing is easy for us as fans. Roberts backstop is that they have another two games at home to wrap this series up.
Having to use a bullpen game in Game 6 of a NLCS is a true reflection of today’s MLB. I will be curious how they set this staff up to get through nine innings. Hopefully, the offense can provide some early run support for them.
It looks like Freddie needs to be removed from the roster. I can appreciate his desire to play and try to help the team, but he is doing the opposite right now. It’s unfortunate. So I would go with the following lineup for Game 6 and 7 (if necessary):
DH Ohtani
RF Betts
1B Muncy
3B Kiki
SS Edman
LF Teoscar
C Smith
CF Pages
2B Taylor / Lux (Game 7)
It’s important that Teoscar and Will get out of the slumps they are in. Especially, if they move on to the WS. With FF probably unavailable it really affects the offense if they aren’t contributing.
I fear that with all the walks that Max is getting lately he isn’t being as aggressive as he needs to be. When he isn’t hitting well he has the tendency to look to walk instead of trying to hit his way out of it. Now, his OPS is over 1.000 yet he is looking to walk. This isn’t what the Dodgers need right now.
On to Game 6 and a successful bullpen experience.
Carry on.
Ohtani great speed but not a good baserunner.
I’m thinking Flaherty told Roberts he was fine. He put up a zero in the second inning. It got away in the third. It was probably a difficult decision to make, but he made it. He’s the manager. I respect his decision. I will not join the anti Roberts Club.
Muncy is hitting .258 and OPSing over 1.000. Don’t change a thing.
I trust Freddie will be available if there is a game 7. I trust Teo will show up. I don’t trust Smith or Taylor. Hope they surprise.
It was visible from the start Flaherty did not have it. Velo down, no command, no location.
If you made the decision to start him although under the weather over the bullpen game, fine, make that decision you are the manager. But when you see the guy simply does not have it please for heavens sake take him out after he walks the first two batters in the third. GAme was 3-1 at that time. Bring in someone else to put out the fire. If he can do it, trust your offense to make up the deficit. Heck, we scored 6 runs in this game, should be enough to win with your A bullpen guys.
But okay, as we know for some time, there are fans who will never criticise DR or the front office (who I am sure had a word in that) for their decisions. So be it.
We will see how this plays out.
In case the Dodgers lose this series those two decisions (the other one not to pull Knack after the ringing double) will be discussed for a long time.
Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!
All well and good, but it is water under the bridge, and it is too late to change anything. All they can do is go out and try to win one game out of the next two. Hopefully they finish it tomorrow. Look, this team has been playing with a short deck for well over two months. They finished with the best record in baseball, came back from the dead and beat San Diego. Have a little faith that they have the grit to grind this out and win. If they don’t, well then that makes for some real serious off-season discussions. Nothing we say here other than venting our own frustration is going to make one bit of a difference. You believe Roberts made the wrong move starting him and then leaving him out there. I think he was looking at it from a different perspective than you or I would.
If before the game Flaherty had said he was too sick to pitch and in his place the bullpen guys got lit up, people would be screaming that Flaherty was weak and cost them the game. I’m sure in his mind he thought he could go. Should Roberts have taken him out earlier? Based on his Captain Hook mentality it’s clear that he thought Flaherty could get out of the inning. It didn’t work out.
A lot of good points
Bear, Old Bear,Michael!Bottom line is that it is up to the players to perform to their best capabilities.
A sick player very likely will not perform up to his best capabilities.Sic.
Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
And yet there have been a lot of pitchers who have gone out not feeling well and pitched great.
The voice of reason in a sea of despair.
As Billy Crystal said in The Princess Bride, there’s dead, and there’s almost dead. I have driven a truck over 600 miles when I was so sick I could hardly get into the rig. Then when I got to the truck stop, I loaded up on Nyquil and went to bed. I was not that much better the next day, but I finished the run to Chicago and got there on time. It depends on how sick one is.
Obviously he had a different perspective.😡
And yes, we have been hit hard with injuries. But because of that it is even more important and critical that the manager (with input from the front office very likely) does not make cardinal mistakes.
And IMHO (and many others) Game 2 and now Game 5 were botched badly in the same way.
I am really mad and disappointed in the way the Dodgers handled it.
And to make it clear: Even if they win Game 6 or Game 7 I do not believe it makes those 2 decisions the right ones.
That would be result driven and not situational.
Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well Ram, I wouldn’t get angry. Not going to change anything.
I will get over it. It is not that the Dodgers would ever make it easy on us.😯 As Vin said.
Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
When have they ever made it easy? Over the last several years I have had many near heart attacks over closers who make the 9th inning an ordeal. Makes you wish the reincarnation of Eric Gagne would suddenly appear. Even when they swept the Yankees in 63 there was drama. Dodgers do nothing the easy way.
Remember Don Stanhouse? Talk about a closer who could throw gasoline on a fire every time he pitched.
Well I’m glad that Flaherty was under the weather. That explains his F performance and gives me more hope against the Yankees in the WS. Totally confident in that.
First they have to get to the WS.
Bugs me when there is already talk about MVP in this series or looking ahead to the WS.
This series is far from over. Dodgers have given the Mets new momentum.
Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!!!!
Certainly would help if Teo and Smith show up. Especially with Freddie questionable and not producing.
Question:
Has Shohei ever played some 1b and has some experience there ?
Just a thought. Could then switch FF to DH.
Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
No, he has not played first base. He has played the outfield, but they are not going to risk injury to his arm making a throw.
Yeah, some really stupid posts today. Whoever predicted that was sadly correct.
Yours is a good example for that. No content, no arguments, no relation to the topic. No nothing.
Hey, maybe you are under the weather too.😀 I know you can do better.
Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No Shit! 😜
I remember Michael Jordan going for about 40 in a playoff game when he was sick as a dog. Playing sick depends on the individual.
Yes!!!!!
Many players have done great things when ill. Unfortunately for the Dodgers, Flaherty was not one of them.
True, but Flaherty had NOTHING from the first batter on. Everyone who watched the game could see it. No velo, no command, no location.
Should never came out for the third inning to begin with and after he walked the first two batters in that inning he should have been lifted finally.
Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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