I was watching MLB.TV last night and they were talking about the 10 best players in MLB history. Brian Kenny had a list, and Mad Dog Russo, the other host had one too.
Ruth was at the top of both lists. But that was about the only spot they agreed on. Condescending as ever, Kenny added Ohtani at # 10 because he felt Russo would feel slighted if he was not on there.
Mantle was on one list, Musial on the other. Kenney left all of the dead ball era guys off of his list. Griffey Jr. made both lists. To me this is an almost impossible task. The only way I see that it could be done fairly is by eras. 1890-1919, 1920-1940, 1941-1961, 1962-1990, 1990-2010, 2010-presant.
The dead ball era basically ended with the emergence of Babe Ruth as an everyday offensive player. All you need to do is see how many less players hit for high average once the long ball came into serious play.
Oddly, because baseball now recognizes the Negro League stats, the number of .400 hitters after 1920, exceeds the number before. 19 accomplished the feat by 1920, 31 did it until the last time it was reached by Ted Williams, .406, and Josh Gibson, .466, in 1941 and 1943 respectively.
Ed Delahanty, Ty Cobb, Rogers Hornsby, and Oscar Charleston, are the only hitters to top .400 three times. 2 timers include Jesse Burkett, George Sisler, Heavy Johnson, Rap Dixon, and Josh Gibson.
Another problem with rating the top players is the fact that the stats used today to grade a player’s greatness are far different. Since the game began, rules and stats have changed dramatically. Imagine how many bases Cobb or Henderson, and even Wills, might have had with the new rule instated this year. 
WAR is a big part of the way players are gauged today too. OPS is more important than BA. Muncy is a huge testament to that. And as for pitchers, let’s face it, no modern pitcher is going to come close to Young’s 511 wins, or the complete game record or the 110 career shutouts by Walter Johnson, who along with his 417 wins, recorded 34 saves.
The way things are going the new 300 is 200. And there were many dead-ball era pitchers who were dominant. Mathewson and Pete Alexander with 373 wins each. Candy Cummings, the inventor of the curve ball if you believe the history. 
If I had to, my top 10 would be all offensive players, with a separate top 10 for pitchers. 1. Ruth, Cobb, Mays, Mantle, Wagner, Hornsby, Williams, Aaron, Pujols, Gehrig. Pitchers. Young. Alexander, Mathewson, Plank, Maddux, Gibson, Koufax, Randy Johnson, Spahn, Ryan.
Go ahead, lets see yours.
Great article Bear….thanks for it.
My top 10 hitters not in any order:
Fun article Bear. Welcome back. Hope Jeff is doing better.I like your lists but I would put Bonds in for Pujols and Clemens in for Spahn
Bonds 7 MVPs are tainted as is he. Pujols was the better hitter. Over 3000 hits. 3 MVP’s and a batting title. Bonds won two, both after he started using PEDs. Clemens and Spahn I would almost agree with except that Spahn won 20 games or more 13 times, including 5 in a row when his career was winding down. He also is all time leader in wins for a left-hander. If I replace anyone, it is Mantle with Josh Gibson.
Yes, cool topic, Bear. Always great for discussion.
And I totally forgot about the PEDs factor!
But yes, I agree that PEDs should disqualify Bonds and Clemens from consideration. They have already disqualified themselves from my thought process!
Rather than compare career stats, I prefer to compare players in their prime. I mean, Koufax didn’t even even come close to winning 200 games… but he’s still Sandy Freaking Koufax!
This is also why I will always love Fernando and Orel much more than Sutton and his 300 wins.
I also think it makes sense to judge players by the eras in which they played. The Cy Young Award honors a guy who won over 500 games… in the “dead ball” era.
In the current era, the Dodgers clearly have at least two of the top ten hitters–and maybe three.
Sweet.
BTW, this discussion reminds me of when Sports Illustrated was trying to name the Greatest Athletes of the 20th Century. The choice was Michael Jordan, which I think revealed a great recency bias.
Plus, putting Jordan on the cover would sell a lot more magazines than a guy like Jackie Robinson.
I remember debating friends about about SI’s impending decision. Several predicted Jordan, while I was arguing for Jackie Robinson and Muhammad Ali.
To achieve true “greatness,” I think there has to an impact on society.
Still believe that.
I totally agree. As great as any player might be, in a team sport, superstars like Jordan still need very good players around them. Otherwise, they win nothing. As good as Baylor and West were, the Lakers still could not beat the Celtics. A guy like Berra, who was a very good hitter surrounded by a superstar and other very good players, won 10 rings. You can’t do it alone and your organization has to be committed to winning.
Jarrett Siedler of Baseball Prospectus on the Dodgers farm system:
I happen to be watching this on YouTube right now….
Love what Seidler is saying about Zyhir Hope. He compared Hope’s breakthrough and rise as a teenage prospect to that of Red Sox’s Roman Anthony a year ago. Anthony is now ranked among the top prospects in the game.
Longshot scenario: Hope, who will soon turn 20, gets invited to Spring training and simply blows everybody away.
Could the Dodgers mint an OF prodigy akin to Soto, Acuna, Trout and now the Brewers’ Chourio? Could we see an Opening Day outfield with Hope flanked by Teoscar and Conforto?
OK, probably not. In yesteryear, the Dodgers rushed teenagers like Willie Crawford, Fernando and Urias. But the current regime is more conservative.
How can you not include Walter Johnson in your top 10 pitchers??
Totally fanned on that one, he would replace Plank.
😃
Future Top Ten Pitcher????
From DodgersNation:
“Away from the media horde in Los Angeles, the Dodgers signed 16-year-old Bryan Lara. He plays for the Liga Mexicana de Beisbol team, Bravos de León.
“I feel thrilled and excited to be able to wear these colors,” Lara said in a press release. “The truth is that being part of this organization is something beautiful, and now we’re going for more [championships.] I know it won’t be easy, the journey is still long, but you can succeed at everything by working hard and with enthusiasm.”
Dodger scout Juvenal Soto gave Lara a glowing review, highlighting the speed of his fastball. There’s a chance Lara could reach the big leagues sooner than most.
“Bryan has a great physique for his young age, and above all, his fastball velocity touching 90 and 92 miles per hour is very interesting for a 16-year-old,” Soto said. “His command, breaking pitches, and secondary pitches are above average, and his body suggests he could be a Major League prospect, possibly a starter very soon.”
Depends how we define “greatness.”
Jackie Robinson was a great man.
Who in baseball accomplished anything greater?
And let’s not forget all the players who endure injustice in these exercises. By many accounts, Josh Gibson was as good a ballplayer as Ruth or anybody else. Plus, he played catcher. Shouldn’t he get points for that? (Without the color line, how good would his stats be?)
And again, when we purely consider the data, how do we factor in the years that Ted Williams and several others lost to military service?
Now we have players packing on stats with the DH.
And let’s also give points for defense.
How about an all-time lineup?
Josh Gibson at C
Gehrig at 1B
Wagner at SS
OF of Ruth, Mays, Williams…???
Not sure about 2B and 3B. I’m suspicious of old stats that showed that hitting .400 wasn’t so uncommon way back when.
My pitching staff starts with Koufax and Gibson.
A Gibson-Gibson battery would have been special.
Modern era, Morgan and Schmidt, dead ball, Hornsby and Pie Traynor.
I think this can only be done by era.
The best baseball player I ever saw was probably Willie Mays. Mantle was right there with him, but most of his greatness was before age 30.
The best pitcher I ever saw was Koufax, with Gibson a close second.
The best pure hitter? Maybe Tony Gwynn. His .338 career average is the best of any player whose career started after 1947. I did see Stan Musial play, but it was late in his career. Never saw Ted Williams but his stats are unparalleled. And he missed 3 years in his prime.
Good topic for conversation.
I also think by era is the only way to go.
Agree.
Gimme some George Brett.
Brett and Schmidt neck and neck. Several polls though place Schmidt ahead of George.
Coin flip. I would be happy with either one.
Pete Rose
Mickey Mantel
Jackie Robinson
Babe Ruth
Joe Diamagio
Stan Musial
Ted Williams
Lou Brock
Willie May’s
Cal Ripken Jr
That would be my top ten players in baseball who played the game the right way.
Good list. Pete did play the right way, and he was not blessed with great ability. He worked hard to become the player he was. Too bad he ruined his reputation and screwed himself out of the hall by gambling on the game.
Position Players:
Babe Ruth
Willie Mays
Ty Cobb
Henry Aaron
Tris Speaker
Honus Wagner
Stan Musial
Ted Williams
Lou Gehrig
Mickey Mantle
Pitchers:
Walter Johnson
Cy Young
Grover Alexander
Tom Seaver
Lefty Grove
Chrisy Mathewson
Greg Maddux
Randy Johnson
Warren Spahn
Sandy Koufax
I’ve got a lineup card…
Mays CF
Williams DH
Ruth RF
J. Gibson C
Gehrig 1B
Wagner SS
Aaron LF
Schmidt 3B
J. Robinson 2B
Snuck Jackie in as my “second leadoff” guy. He and Gehrig, the Iron Horse, are my co-captains.
I briefly considered Ohtani for DH, but I think Williams is the greatest hitter ever and wasn’t so hot with the glove.
Schmidt is debatable at 3B. Not a Top Ten player, certainly… but I can’t think of a better third baseman.
And on the bump is Koufax.
On the bench I’ve got Ricky Henderson, Campanella and some players to be named later.
Ty Cobb showed up at this Field of Dreams, but when he started praising the klan, Josh Gibson kicked his ass. He stumbled back into the cornfield and was never seen again.
I like it. 😃
Fun article in Dodger Digest about top prospects by position. Fun to go back and look at previous years. Since 2019 only Smith and Lux became multi year positional starters. Lots of quality starting pitchers but almost zero relief pitchers have ever seen Dodger Stadium