Connect with us

Dodger Baseball

Damn That Dave Roberts

Note – I wrote this prior to Sunday’s game.  I added a couple of additional comments based in part on Sunday’s come from behind win.

 

 

It is going to be a long season if after every loss it is because of Dave Roberts.  Damn that Roberts for sending up Will Smith, Max Muncy, and Teoscar Hernández with the bases loaded and nobody out so that the Dodgers would not score in the 1st.  Damn that Roberts for allowing Mookie to pop out and Shohei to strikeout with runners on 1st and 3rd and one out so the Dodgers would not score in the 2nd.

Damn that Dave Roberts for sending Freddie to the plate on muddy base paths on a medium fly ball to a 72nd percentile arm in RF.

Damn that Dave Roberts for allowing James Outman to strikeout with no outs and a runner on 2nd in the 10th.  While we are at it, damn that Dave Roberts for sending up Jason Heyward to strike out right behind Outman.  If either of those LH hitters pull the ball, Taylor gets to 3rd and scores on Gavin Lux’s infield single.  And damn that Dave Roberts to allow Shohei to strike out again with the winning runners in scoring position in the 10th.

I looked at the box score and did not see Roberts as one of the 14 strikeout victims, and do not remember him leaving any of the 13 runners LOB.  The box score says that the Dodgers were 7-19 WRISP.  I went back and looked at each of the plays, and I only counted 6-19.  Regardless, the Dodgers had 19 ABs WRISP, and could only score 4.  That is borderline pathetic.

Okay, maybe the critics are not going to blame Doc for all of the hitting miscues, but they are very quick to blame him for the pitching.

Apparently there are a lot of fans who spoke with Yoshi Yamamoto and knew he could go out for another inning or two(??).  He already sat out for a 35 minute rain delay, and then had another long wait after a long bottom of the 5th.  He left with a 2-0 lead, and missed out on many many more.  Yamamoto had a very positive outing and was feeling good about his Saturday start.

Prior to Saturday, Yamamoto’s longest outing was 4.2 IP which did not end well.  The longest before that was 3.0 IP.  He had a total of 9.2 IP in ST (3 games).  1.0 inning in Game 2.  And yet everyone is convinced that Yamamoto had 6-7 innings in him.  I liked that he walked away with 5.0 scoreless innings, and feeling good about the game.

Per Juan Toribio:

Over the last six days, Yamamoto obsessed over getting his mechanics right. This spring, Yamamoto dealt with some pitch tipping. He has since fixed that. Now, the Dodgers believe the mechanical cues are right where they need to be.

He made excellent improvements.  Why push it?  Why not leave the game with a positive vibe (Yamamoto’s term)?  What if he went back out and got rocked?  I know that would have been Doc’s fault as well.  He would have been facing the lineup the third time. Doc is supposed to be all-knowing.  He should know when the pitcher will pitch well, and when he won’t. It is a long season, and the better Yamamoto feels about his pitching this early, the better it is going to be over the remaining 157 games.  We are really worried about this one game?

BTW, Lance Lynn threw 70 pitches and he did not come back out, and he was also pitching a shutout.  What is wrong with Marmol?  Lynn had another 1-2 innings in him.

I know wins do not mean anything to analytics, but maybe the Dodgers wanted to get Yamamoto that first MLB win for him, especially after his first outing.  Maybe it means something to Yamamoto.

Now to Joe Kelly.

As has been brought up by me and others, the piggyback approach effectively takes your bullpen down to 7.  With Yarbrough going 3.0 innings on Thursday, the earliest he would be able to pitch again would be Sunday…maybe (he didn’t).  Grove, Brasier, Hudson, Kelly, Vesia, Hurt, Phillips.   Grove, Brasier, and Phillips each pitched Friday.  Doc was probably counting on going Hudson, Kelly, Vesia, and Hurt following 5 innings from Yoshi.  Hudson did what he was supposed to do.

Coming into the game, Kelly had not pitched in a regular season game since Game 1 (March 20).  1.0 IP, 8 pitches/7 strikes.  March 25 against LAA in a meaningless ST game,  he threw 0.2 innings, 7 pitches/5 strikes.  15 pitches from March 20 and 12 strikes.  That was 10 days between meaningful games.

Kelly walked the first batter, Nolan Gorman (5 pitches).  Hit Arenado (1 pitch). And Carpenter reached on catcher’s interference (1 pitch).  First out was sac fly on an 0-2 pitch.  Now he has thrown 10 pitches and he should be done?  Without a complete bullpen?  Kelly has been known to load the bases on BB and HBP, and then strike out the side.  Maybe the Dodgers wanted to see if he could get out of this inning.  He didn’t.

Let’s look back a year.  The Dodgers bullpen was horrendous until mid-June and then once they figured out who the correct pitchers should be, they became the best bullpen in MLB.  Really, who does Roberts have that he can rely on.  Alex Vesia?  We saw what he could do on Sunday.

Gus Varland gave up a 3-run HR in relief of Walker Buehler.  John Rooney also gave up a run in relief.  There may not be a lot in OKC outside of the former MLB pitchers.

After Saturday’s game, the Dodgers optioned Kyle Hurt.  They brought up former Padres reliever, Nabil Crismatt.  To make room for Crismatt, Emmett Sheehan was moved to the 60 day IL to make room on the 40 man.  Crismatt pitched two shutout quality innings on Sunday.  1 hit and 3 K.

The Dodgers have to be able to rely on their bullpen if they have any chance of reaching much less winning the WS.  They might as well see early on who should be considered, and who shouldn’t.  This was one game.  Kelly was outstanding in Game 1, and horrid in Game 5.  Kelly is going to have a lot more good games than games like he had on Saturday.

Let’s concentrate on the Saturday positives.

  • Yoshinobu Yamamoto pitched an outstanding 5.0 innings.
  • Daniel Hudson had his second excellent relief appearance. He looks to be healthy again.  (Sunday follow up – Great closing save on Sunday).
  • Kyle Hurt pitched an excellent 2.0 innings, then was given an impossible task with Victor Scott II on 2B to begin the 10th. Cardinals just put the bat on the ball, and Scott II easily scored after 2 ground ball outs.  Something the Dodgers could not do.
  • Evan Phillips was able to pitch in back to back games, and struck out the only batter he faced.
  • Mookie Betts is still on another planet. 3-4, including single, double, and HR.
  • Freddie Freeman and Will Smith each went 3-5 and had hits WRISP.
  • Gavin Lux was 2-5.

As an aside, I understand tedraymond’s position on Joe Kelly.  He is certainly not alone. I did not like Ramirez being hit in the ribs in the playoffs.  But I have zero problems with him not being afraid to pitch inside and maybe issue a payback pitch (or two or three).  I thought what he did to Carlos Correa was outstanding.  That was common in the 60’s.

I agree that Kelly is overpaid. I have no idea where that amount came from, or why it was justified. I would have preferred they would have signed Brent Sutter (LHRP) who signed with Cincinnati for $2.5MM, and $3.5MM club option with a $500K buyout.  Is Kelly the only overpaid Dodger?  I don’t think so.

BTW, does Doc get the credit for Sunday’s win?

 

 

MiLB GAME SUMMARY

 

Tacoma Rainiers (Seattle) 7 – OKC Baseball Club 6

Walker Buehler made his first rehab start for 2024, and pitched well.  He got through 2.0 perfect innings and the first batter in the 3rd, before he issued a walk. With two out, he issued another walk and then allowed a single for the Rainier first run.  Andy Pages had a throwing error, and a second run scored.

He got the third out, and was at 46 pitches.  He came back out for the 4th, and got the first out.  Samad Taylor then hit a HR off a middle in change.  It was hit 109.4 MPH and traveled 437 feet.  Taylor just sat on that change, and it did not move much at all.  He surrendered a single on the next pitch (knuckle curve).  That was the end of the night for Buehler.  Buehler threw 54 pitches/31 strikes.  He allowed 4 runs (3 earned), 3 hits, 2 BB, 2 K, 1 HR.  He threw all 6 of his pitches.

  • 4-seam fastball – 19
  • Cutter – 13
  • Knuckle Curve – 6
  • Sinker – 8
  • Slider – 4
  • Change – 4

His 4-seamer sat at 94-95.  He got the velo up to 95.7 on the 4 seamer.  His sinker was 93-94.

RHRP Gus Varland entered and hit the first batter he faced.  After a ground out, Varland surrendered a 3-run HR.  Varland retired the side in order in the 5th.

LHRP John Rooney entered in the 6th.  He walked the first batter, and then threw a WP.  After a ground out moved the runner to 3rd, he scored on a single, and a 7-3 lead.

OKC jumped out to a 3-0 lead  after 3.  Ryan Ward and Trey Sweeney hit solo HRs.  Andre Lipcius singled, stole 2nd and scored on a Chris Owings single.

In the 7th, Drew Avans drew a BB and scored on Andy Pages’ triple.

In the 9th, Chris Owings opened the inning with a single.  With 2 outs, Trey Sweeney singled and OKC had runners on 2nd and 3rd.  Miguel Vargas singled to plate both runners, but Ryan Ward grounded out to end the game.

  • Trey Sweeney – 2-3, 2 BB, HR (1), 2 runs, 2 RBI
  • Ryan Ward – 2-5, 1 run, 1 RBI
  • Andre Lipcius – 2-4, double (1), 1 run
  • Chris Owings – 2-4, 1 run, 1 RBI
  • Andy Pages – 1-4, 1 BB, triple (1), 1 RBI
  • Miguel Vargas – 1-5, 2 RBI

Buehler will get another 3-4 rehab starts.  I expect his command will greatly improve, and I expect to see greater velos.  This was a great start for his rehab to return to the rotation.

 

Box Score

 

 

 

65 Comments
Subscribe
Notify of
guest
65 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Scott Andes

Here’s my opinion on this…Duke said it best…

“Relying on multiple relievers runs the risk that at least one will have a bad day–and this time it was Kelly.”

this is accurate. The more middle relievers you use the chances of winning decrease. For the reason above. It also is a problem because by end of season they are overused, often injured and tired. Last season the Dodger bullpen logged a lot of innings and their starting pitchers threw the least amount of innings in all of MLB.

The Dodger’s strategies and game management are weak and predictable. Their primary game strategies are as follows,

1. heavy bullpen usage nearly every game. 4-6 middle relievers almost daily.

2.starting pitchers are hooked at 80 pitches every start. No matter what the situation, score or inning. If the starter is throwing a shutout, or even a no-hitter, once they reach 80 they’re done.

3. constant lefty/righty match-ups on offense. If a lefty is pitching, guys like Rojas and Barnes are starting. Despite those guys being some of the worst hitters in baseball. Rojas and Barnes couldn’t hit water if they fell out of a boat.

in Sunday’s game, Muncy and Smith two of their most productive hitters were on the bench and they scored no runs until the 7th inning. Then Muncy hits the game winning home run. Imagine how much easier the win might have been had Muncy and Smith started. Muncy only ends up back in the game because the Cardinals hooked their lefty and thought in a right hander. Will the Dodgers ever learn from this?

frankly this is annoying. Its one thing if guys like Rojas, Barnes were good hitters but they are not. I understand Barnes has to catch 60-70 games a year because he is the backup catcher and Rojas is an excellent defender, but those guys should never start just because a lefty is on the mound. They’re terrible hitters and normally the Dodgers score very little when they’re in the starting lineup. I actually looked at the numbers from last year and counted up how many times they scored 1 or 0 runs with those guys in the lineup and it happened often. I would have to pull the numbers again but it was around 30% of those games. Way too many times honestly.

on the pitching side, if the Dodgers had a lock down bullpen that would be a different story, but the bullpen is average. They have a few effective relievers. Phillips is great, brusdar is very good when healthy. Hudson can get outs, and Yarbrough is decent enough, but none of them strike fear in opposing hitters.

baseball is a game of adjustments, adjustments by the players, manager. Coaches and front office. These strategies are the reason why they get destroyed in the playoffs every year. Its not the main reason but a huge factor.

I like Roberts and have always defended him, and I can understand the opposing views here. Hes a good manager and runs the clubhouse very well. The Dodgers are so much better with him then without him, but these strategies are meant to be used sparingly throughout the season, especially the postseason. Lefty/righty matchups are meant to be used in the late innings when a tough reliever comes in.
Middle relievers should be used sparingly as well. Innings from your rotation are important and starters should go deep into games.

The Dodgers seem to have a tendency to baby and coddle the players too much and it never leads to to preventing injuries. Did innings limits help prevent Dustin may from getting hurt? Gonsolin, Urias?

starting pitchers should pitch 150 innings and 6-7 innings per start. Its not asking much. There’s no reason to believe they can’t. Nobody is asking for complete games and 200 innings, but 150 and 25 starts per year is not unreasonable. If they can’t because of injuries, then maybe they should be in the pen. If they can’t because management refuses to let them do it, then they are being coddled.

I know Roberts is a players manager and doesn’t like to challenge the players. Its not his style, but maybe its time to adjust a little. Many of you are from the old era. Mickey Mantle played a good portion of his career with no cartilage in his knees. Sandy Koufax once pitched with nerve damage and a numb hand. I know those are extreme examples, but I find it hard to believe the starting pitchers can’t make more than 80 pitches occasionally or pitch 150 innings.

Thats my take guys, I hope you had a great Easter.

(Sorry for a few typos, I’m typing on my phone)

Last edited 15 days ago by Scott Andes
Make mine Blue

I fully expect the next blog to be entitled “Damn that Dave Roberts and that MFer Scott Andes” lol

Scott you make some very reasonable and well targeted points. The 80 pitch bullshit is beyond a stupid strategy. Really just look at the Yamamoto example from Saturday, if a guy is rolling you don’t yank him, I don’t believe for a second that the “let’s give this pussy a feel good vibe by pulling him early”. In fact, let’s do it the other way, “let’s give this stud pitcher a chance to dominate deep into the game and walk off the field as a conquering hero”. Especially when dealing with a Japanese pitcher, maybe some of you have never heard the concept of Saving Face in that culture. If you want our Japanese boys, Yamamoto and Ohtani to really excel stop treating them like fragile pussies, I can promise you they weren’t raised that way in the Japanese sports world. A good dose of that treatment would go a long way for the rest of the boys on the team as well.

tedraymond

Hey Scott. Good points above. I, too, have a major gripe with how the Dodgers (and probably the rest of MLB) are so quick to remove a starting pitcher. Let them pitch until they show that they are truly tiring. Like the “old days” when loss of velocity or pitches not staying down or pitch location not effective or multiple hits was the reason for a pitcher being removed.

For years the reasoning was that they wanted to keep the pitchers fresh for the playoffs. Total frickin’ BS. How many times have we seen these supposedly “fresh” starters be hurt come playoff time or ineffective (Kershaw for example)? The Japanese believe in pitching once a week, but when they do pitch it’s until the “old days” symptoms happened. I don’t think a pitch count or what inning it is makes any difference. Like any other muscle in the body, using it to exhaustion helps to build up strength in the long run. That’s why it bothers me to see Bobby Miller throw 98-100 MPH. It’s TJ surgery waiting to happen. Less velo and better location. You know, pitching! I think would lead to healthier pitchers who were maybe not “fresher”, but stronger for the playoffs. Just my humble opinion.

I have to disagree with your objection to Barnes and Rojas playing yesterday. It’s typical for Smith to have Sundays off after a Saturday night game. Muncy can’t play every game. And Lux is struggling a bit and with a LHP for the Cards it was a opportunity to get some players some time off even though it’s early in the season.
And being that Barnes, Kiki, and Rojas are RH hitters it gave them a better chance at having success being that they are not good hitters. It’s not usual to have bench players playing on Sunday. There is still plenty of offense available with Betts, Ohtani, Freeman, and T Hernandez. There is no way Barnes is going to be in 60-70 games as a starting catcher unless for an injury. But, overall, not a big deal to me. It’s a long season.

And just to participate…..damn that Dave Roberts!

Carry on, Scott Andes

Last edited 15 days ago by tedraymond
Scott Andes

Thanks Tedra,

looks like we have similar gripes.

porpoiseboy

4 to 6 middle relievers every game? That’s an average of five. I challenge that. Especially you’re leaving closers out so name the games when they’ve used six middle relievers.

Last edited 15 days ago by porpoiseboy
Scott Andes

I’m including closers. That was the average in 2023. Go look through the game logs if you don’t believe me.

Bluto

The whole thing is a logical mess porpoise boy. Like the exaggeration of relievers. Like the decrying of adjusting by inserting Muncy for the favorable matchup and then two paragraphs later saying baseball is a game of adjustments.

I really liked the paragraph which started with this doozy of a silly pair of sentences:
Starting pitchers should pitch 150 innings and 6-7 innings per start. Its not asking much. There’s no reason to believe they can’t. 

Scott Andes

Hey Bluto,

You slur a lot of insults but offer little when challenged to debate. If you disagree with me, and have more to offer than just petty childish insults, put in your two cents. I wouldn’t mind discussing this with you since you think I’m exaggerating and then putting words in my mouth to fit your narrative that I’m crazy or something.

What did I say that you disliked so much?

Make mine Blue

Pluto’s root problem is he actually hates himself. Don’t worry about him. He’s often found to be silly.

Bluto

Or!

It’s because I’m silly and I hate myself!

Bluto

It’s not dislike, it’s frustration.

You’re a smart guy, but you write occasionally like a moron.

It’s silly.

You write as if the Dodgers are limiting pitchers for no reason. This is the most analytically driven team in the majors. They limit pitchers innings because…

The data tells them to! There’s a TON of data about this and anecdotal information about it.

This line is so inane it’s almost laughable:
starting pitchers should pitch 150 innings and 6-7 innings per start. Its not asking much.

Who says it’s not asking much? Who said they should pitch that much? What is the reasoning behind the word, “should”? Is it solely opinion? If so, it’s useless. Valueless.

Then there’s this kind of self-conflicting language:
These strategies are the reason why they get destroyed in the playoffs every year. Its not the main reason but a huge factor.

Make up your mind? Is it the reason, or is it not the main reason and only a factor?

Finally there’s the recent recurring theme in your posts, both the above one and other recent times, position last year as somehow symbolic of something. Ignoring the outlier that it was in terms of starting pitching injuries and overall pitching usage.

Last years usage of middle receivers in the context of the last decade or so is obviously an outlier. As was the # of starters used.

Finally. Muncy last night. You are going to tell me Muncy wasn’t inserted because of the Righty-Lefty matchup? Kittredge is a Righty, no? Kike also a RHB?

Last edited 15 days ago by Bluto
porpoiseboy

Bro, as a famous philosopher once said….. Stop making sense.
Cheers

Scott Andes

Oh Bluto, you start out well, then back to insults. Even if I am illogical or whatever you say, I’m adult enough not hurl insults at you. But let’s stick to the topics at hand smart guy.

You write as if the Dodgers are limiting pitchers for no reason. This is the most analytically driven team in the majors. They limit pitchers innings because…

I write as if? I have no idea why the Dodgers limit the starters to 80 pitches per start. All I know is they have made the organizational decision to limit every starter in almost every single game to 80, no matter the situation and its limiting in my opinion. But since you seem to know so much more than me and are talking about data, how about you show me this data. Show me the numbers you’re speaking of and maybe I’ll change my opinion.

starting pitchers should pitch 150 innings and 6-7 innings per start. Its not asking much.

Thats right they should pitch 150 and make 6-7 innings per start. Its not unreasonable. Not long ago, starting pitchers were regularly pitching more innings back then, some were going 180, 190, and 200 plus innings. And there are MORE injuries today then there were 20, 30, 40 years ago. Why do you think that is? If making 100 pitches per start or tossing 180 innings leads to injuries, then why are more pitchers getting hurt now then ever before? As someone above was pointing out, I think it was Jeff, its the stress on the arm, elbow and muscles, the velocity, and not the number of pitches thrown. But I never said I’m an expert here. These are my observations.

self-conflicting language? I said its been a contributing factor, not the main factor. Not sure why you’re not understanding this.

Outlier? Its been the same for the last three years in terms of lack of innings from the starters, injuries to the relievers, overuse of the bullpen.

and in regards to Muncy….There was a lefty on the mound to start the game! Steve Matz is a lefty you knucklehead! That’s why Muncy wasn’t in the lineup. Muncy bats left handed! The lineup was mostly right handed.
Kittredge? He hit the home run off of King.. another lefty. I’m talking about the reason Muncy was not in the starting lineup. There was a lefty on the mound.


porpoiseboy

You got insulted by him saying logical mess? That’s slinging slurs? Did you happen to lose all your skin in a flaying accident? Sheesh!

Scott Andes

Read his last post. Bluto and I have an interesting camaraderie.

But secretly, he actually loves me.

Scott Andes

“Favorable match-up”?

He homered off a lefty Bluto and was specifically not in the starting lineup because there was a lefty on the mound.

Lolz

Bluto

He was “inserted” against Kittredge, dingbat.

Scott Andes

You’re an anecdotal

Bluto

I think we can end it here.

Well argued Scott!

Scott Andes

Ha ha ha look at what you wrote. “Dingbat”

But you’re always right and know everything.

Sam Oyed

Couple of questions;

1. If Barnes should play 60-70 games, when should he start?
2. Stone is a ground ball pitcher. Muncy isn’t the best fielder. Is there no logic to having Hernandez playing third?
3. If cutting May’s innings still lead to arm problems, how does increasing his load help? Throwing 100 lead to harm problems. It’s a league wide issue and to my knowledge, no team has found an answer.

Yes, Rojas is a glove first player but it is funny that he has hit more home runs than Ohtani.

Last edited 15 days ago by Sam Oyed
Scott Andes

1. We’re 6 days into the season, after several days off when coming back from Seoul. I get it if Smith needs a day off. But probably too early to start Barnes, and definitely not a good idea next day after a tough loss.

2. I get that, but how about the logic of Muncy’s game winning home run being more important than ground ball defense at third?

3. I dont think of it that way. I think of it as allowing him to pitch a normal load and get into a routine of pitching deep into games. Not only does it benefit the entire team but it helps his confidence. What does it say when management hooks him in the 5th inning to bring in Joe Kelly? It tells them that management doesn’t trust them to get outs later in the game. “We don’t trust you, so we’re bringing in Joe Kelly” and its only the 5th inning.

4.yes Rojas has hit one home run and Ohtani none, but do you think that lasts long? Will Rojas hit above the mendoza line this year?

Sam Oyed

1. And yet Barnes got on base several times yesterday.
2. Muncy hit his home run batting lower in the order because he was a pinch hitter earlier in the game. If he’s in his normal spot he doesn’t hit a 2 run homer. So maybe Roberts had it all planned out perfectly (sarcasm).
3. It’s acknowledged that the human arm is not made for throwing 100 constantly. Beuhler and May are supremely confident pitchers. Confidence didn’t help keep them off the IL.
4. Of course Ohtani will hit more. But I find it funny that numerous people complain about Barnes and Rojas yet they are #2 and 3 on the team in OPS. Will that stay that way no. But they are contributing quite well right now. So give them some love.

Scott Andes

1. Several times? He had a flare single and a walk on Sunday. Two times. Rojas hit a home run. Let’s not get carried away here.

2.I don’t think it matters what spot he was batting, as long as he’s in the game. Even a solo home run still ties the game in that situation. Can’t hit a homer sitting on the bench.

3.dont disagree completely here, but did limiting innings and 80 or less and hook keep them off the injured list? Why not stretch them out a little and take it on a start by start basis instead of making an organizational decree, 80 and done no matter the situation. In regards to confidence, how do you think it effects their confidence when management disallows them from pitching past the 5th inning? They’re essentially saying we don’t trust you more than the bullpen.

4. I like both of them when they are used in the roles they are supposed to fill. Barnes as the backup catcher who gets 1 or 2 starts every couple of weeks, and Rojas as a late inning defensive replacement. Should they be starting every single time a left handed starter is on the mound? Heck no.

Sam Oyed

If you want Barnes playing once or twice a week, then what’s the problem if he played yesterday. As you say he got a hit and a walk. There will be plenty of times he won’t hit well and reason to complain. Yesterday he got on base twice. So why the complaints?

Thee is no clear answer on how pitchers should be used. If all MLB teams are struggling with injury issues, I doubt any of us has any better answer.

WRT Yamamoto; he’s used to pitching basically once a week. Numerous people wonder how he will adjust to the longer season. So managing innings is something that I would think should be looked at.

There is also the issue of third time through the lineup. The stats say that’s an issue. Should that be ignored? As you say, one should account for how someone is pitching a particular game. But even then there can be issues. I’ve seen Urias pitch a great first 3 innings and then get bombed. In hind sight one could say take him out after three. However, no one would do that because there’s no basis for it in real time. At least there is some justification for taking a pitcher out after 2 times through the order.

Yes Muncy doesn’t hit a homer if he’s not in the game. But he did get in and was in the right place in the lineup when it mattered. Note, he would not have faced the same pitcher if he had hit earlier.

Scott Andes

I said once or twice every two weeks, not one
God help us if he’s in the lineup twice a week. The problem is the drop in offensive production from Smith to Barnes is like the gap in the grand canyon. Barnes is a horrible hitter, and one flare single and a walk doesn’t change that.

As for Yamamoto, I’m looking at this numbers and seeing he pitched 193 innings in 2021, 193 in 2022 and 171 in 23. I think he can handle a full workload in the states.

As for his numbers facing a lineup third time through. Do you have those numbers? If he struggles facing a lineup three times and the numbers do prove this, then ok I’m wrong in regards to his situation. It doesn’t always apply to every pitcher.

As for Muncy, facts are facts. The Dodgers sat him because they thought they could get a tactical advantage with Hernandez at third, yet Muncy is a more productive hitter. (I think we can both agree there) and the only reason he was not in the lineup was because they think he shouldn’t be facing left handed pitching. Then he later hits a home run against a lefty to win the game. Maybe just start him and not bother with a weak matchup?

Otherwise I guess this is just where you and I differ on these subjects.

Scott Andes

We certainly do disagree. Not sure how you correlate hundreds of wins with Austin Barnes the worst hitter in MLB, but just wanted to share some other numbers with you.

Austin Barnes 2019 – .203/.293/.340 67 OPS+

Austin Barnes 2020 .244/.353/.314 84 OPS+

Austin Barnes 2021 .215/.299/.345 72 OPS +

Austin Barnes 2022 .212/.324/.380 97 OPS+

Austin Barnes 2023 .180/.256/.242 36 OPS+

Career .219/.324/.343 81 OPS+

They absolutely suffer every time he’s in the lineup. Every time he comes up with runners in base.

RISP .193/.325.310

I never said he had something to do with the playoff losses in 2022 and 2023, but I do remember him whiffing last year in a crucial spot with men in base in game 3.

But his magical glove and dugout presence makes up for him being slightly better than Bill bergen.

Yes we most certainly disagree.

Scott Andes

Cherrypicking? I don’t think im cherrypicking showing his season batting numbers over the last five plus years, but if you insist on going down this rabbit hole….

“Do you remember after Atlanta loaded the bases on 3 straight singles in the 2020 NLCS, and Barnes going out and telling Buehler to stop thinking and throw what he tells him to? Do you remember Game 6 2020 WS when he started the rally in the 6th with a single off Blake Snell? Moved to 3rd on Betts’ double and scored the game tying run on a WP.”

Yes I remember his single in game 6 of the 2020 WS, and his mound visit in the NLCS. I appreciate what he did in the WS that year, I was shocked, considering he reaches base so little, let alone delivers clutch hits.But I appreciate him, it doesnt give him a lifetime pass of sub-mendoza line batting for the rest of his career.

“The same game the manager used 6 middle relievers because Gonsolin could not get of the 2nd inning. ”

You just proved my point with this line. using 6 middle relievers certainly didn’t get them the win, it made it more difficult. Imagine if Gonsolin had pitched 6 or 7 effective innings like a normal starting pitcher. It wouldnt have been such a struggle.

“The same manager who believed that Dylan Floro and his change would beat Randy Arrozarena, when Game 6 was just about to get out of control? Dylan Floro did K Arrozarena on 3 pitches. And yes, with Barnes as the catcher.”

Are you trying to say that Barnes simultaneously pitched, struck out Arozarena, then flew back behind the plate to catch the ball at the same time? I get that Barnes was catching and put down the fingers to call the game, and yes Roberts was in the dugout, but how about giving some credit to the pitcher who actually struck him out? Give credit where credit is due, thank you Dylan Floro.

I said it was clear that he did not hurt the team by playing.

He absolutely hurts them when he bats under .200, and comes up with runners on base, It cancels out all the other things you love about him.

you seem hell bent on driving Barnes out of MLB.

I have? LOLZ. I don’t think I have the power to do that Jeff, nor do I want to. Maybe this is a bit of an overreaction? I don’t want him to be out of MLB, I just want him to not be an automatic out at the plate, otherwise Im ok with the Dodgers moving on from him. I think they could find a backup catcher just as good defensively who can actually hit his way out of a paper bag.

You believe offense is the only meaningful metric

ha ha ha, yet I’m complaining about lack of starting pitching for 3 years now.

Thank goodness the Dodgers pitchers disagree with you.

I dont think anyone knows what the Dodger pitchers agree or disagree with, but they are not going to throw their teammamte under the bus, nor should they.

 I do not care about his offense.

I know you don’t, but I think you should.

So should I side with pitchers who love to throw to him, or you who only cares what offense he generates, with Betts, Ohtani, Freeman, Muncy, T. Hernández…all in the lineup. So would another 10 hits a year do it for you?

I care what offense every Dodger generates. This isnt me picking on poor helpless Barnes.

BTW, he was not the worst hitter in MLB last year. He was not even the worst hitting backup catcher last year.

According to Baseball Prospectus, he was number 339 out of the 600 or so MLB hitters. He ranked 47 out of the 99 catchers. But that also took his glovework and pitch framing into account as well. Even with his solid Defense, it can’t make up for his horrible hitting.

Take it easy Jeff.

Last edited 14 days ago by Scott Andes
Dionysus

Trey Sweeney might be a guy.

[…] it is real. So real that Jeff Dominique of http://www.LaDodgerChronicles.com wrote a piece called “Damn That Dave Roberts!” Everytime something goes wrong for the Dodgers, RDS sets in with some […]

tedraymond

Nice bounce back game for the Dodgers. For a fifth starter Stone had a decent outing. Loved Muncy’s mini bat flip and reaction on his HR. Kind of like Grandal’s bat drop when he hit a HR.

Crismatt’s performance was a surprise. I hadn’t realized he had been called up. If he can continue pitching like that or close to it while the BP gets some players back from injury that would be a big boost.

Here come the Giants for three games with Paxton taking the mound for the first game tonight. Glasnow and Miller will be pitching games two and three. I like the starting staff so far. It was good to see Yamamoto get back on track. Anxious to see how Paxton does. It looks like Buehler will return soon. And then Kershaw after the All Star break? Very nice.

Carry on.

Jeff

I still can’t see the fascination with Vesia as someone to rely on in the bullpen. Last season, he was hanging by a thread. Nothing has really changed for him so why does Roberts predictably go to him? This ties in with Scott’s questioning of the multiple reliever philosophy that Doc is using. Very dangerous. We need to rely on our pitching staff to come to play, not minimize their time on the field.

Jeff

Jeff,
Is it a fact that the FO gives Roberts the rotation and lineup every game? I thought it was the manager who decided who plays and who doesn’t. The fact that Vesia is on the roster doesn’t mean he must play in situations of concern like what happened with Joe Kelly. I think it is Roberts and Prior that are responsible for the bullpen and who they choose to use. If you have some evidence of the FO being in charge of each game, please give it.

Bumsrap

I hated that a 3rd run had to be charged to Stone because Vesia walked 2 and hit one to move the runner Stone left behind to move around the bases.

Kelly is a threat to bean a hitter every time he throws a ball.

Badger

Wins and losses for pitchers have become meaningless. Hurt goes 2.2, gives up 1 and gets the loss while Kelly goes .2, gives up 4 earned and gets a BS. And we’ve all seen a pitcher get one out and a win.

I have no problem with Yamamoto going 5. I was surprised he got that many. As I said yesterday we better get used to the fact we will see a lot of pitchers pulled before they complete 6. It’s just how the Dodgers think. Third time through the lineup will be handled by the bullpen more often than not.

Something else we will see a lot of this year are platoons against LHP. Again, that’s what the numbers say to do.

Betts won’t stay this hot and hopefully Ohtani won’t stay this cold. He’s too good to keep OPSn under .700. Unless of course….

Every team the Dodgers play this year have them circled on their calendar. That’s why the Dodgers will only win 105 this year.

Last edited 15 days ago by Badger
Bobby

Hopefully the Giants are Ohtani’s slump buster starting tonight

tedraymond

Teoscar Hernandez is truly a boom or bust hitter. Fun facts for Teoscar. After the first six games he’s on pace for 75 HRs, 150 RBIs, and 300 strikeouts (46% K rate) for the 2024 season. He will earn every penny of his $23.5MM contract! I know it’s absurd, but I thought it another too early in the season fun stat fact.

Last edited 15 days ago by tedraymond
Therealten

” who should be considered and who shouldn’t “ part of that I think we all know. Kelly is Kelly and he should not be in high leverage situations same with Vesia. Doc should already know that. I could c Vesia improving but Kelly no. As doc says they have a track record. La plays the long game assuming the playoffs so patience is a plan. But teams that were on the cusp of getting into the playoffs have to make every game count. Doc has to play who he is given I get it. So why not put Kelly in before Hudson to give us more time to recover. Vesia being the only lefty has to be used but it will be a high wire act. The Dodgers win the regular season due to depth and quality roster. When they get to the playoffs they are not getting away with patience u have to have some urgency. When the playoffs start who wants to c the dodgers with a lead and Vesia and Kelly on the mound?

Phil Jones

Some excellent comments this morning. Here are my thoughts:
*As salaries for pitchers has risen their expectations have declined. I’m on record for not liking 85 pitch ceilings as reasonable expectations for a starter. The thing that is overlooked is that pitch counts aren’t adjusted as the season progresses and arm strength should be building. 100 pitches in April isn’t the same as in September. But the fear on wear and tear over the season has made my theory obsolete. I don’t subscribe to the theory that an arm has only so many quality bullets in it and when they are used up, you get injured. You know how to avoid pitching injuries? Don’t pitch at all. and that’s what it’s getting to.
I also still believe that the hitters tell the skipper when a pitcher is at his end of his outing. Not a computer predicting a pitcher’s predicted ineffectiveness. The analysts now predict a guy can’t go 3 times through a line up? Is that for every pitcher? 
I have had to resign myself to the fact that this is how it’s done now. But I don’t like it.
*Karl Ravech describes a pitch from Stone last night as a “rising sinker”. Isn’t that an Oxymoron? Actually, I think his 2 seamer is misnamed. Like Joe Kelly, but less so, he has arm-side run on that pitch, but it doesn’t sink.
*Stone had a nice outing especially early. He seemed to lose command with his other pitches and he threw too many change ups. He and Barnes fell in love with the change. I know it’s his best out pitch but guys seemed to sit on it due to it’s overuse. Sitting on a change up is somewhat unique as MLB hitters hate the prospect of being tardy on a fastball so sitting on a change can make them look silly. 
When Stone falls behind with his other stuff, a change up is coming. 
Of his 85 pitches, 41% were change ups. That’s Jaime Moyer territory for a guy with a 95+, 4 seamer. Only 49% of his pitches were 4 seam or 2 seamers – “sinkers”. The bigger problem to me is anything moving away from a right handed hitter accounted for only 9% (cutter 6%, curve 3%) of his pitches. I think I’d scrap one of those 2 pitches and work on a quality, reliable slutter or something going right to left in the strike zone, that he can land for strikes. He doesn’t need 5 pitches, when he scraps 4 of them to get an out.
The accolades by broadcasters is so over the top. Ravech described Elly De La Cruz as a “phenomenal infielder.” He’s not. He does have a phenomenal arm. That’s different. 
I’ll be damn. Muncy with a 2 run homer for a game winner. Nice to see.
I’m in the camp, so far, that our platoons are all too predictable and too early in games. It was obvious last year down the wire. All a team had to do was change the pitcher by the 5th and our lineup flipped. Just change the arm side and you get a new lineup. That works if every player is equal in hitting ability and they aren’t. A couple of pitching changes and we were out of players. Heyward, for example, hit LHP pretty well this spring but now he won’t see any LHP. CT3, in 2023 had reverse splits, hitting .255 vs RHP and only .210 vs LHP, yet he’s rushed to the plate when a leftie comes in the game. It’s a self-fulfilling prophesy and way too predictable.

Last edited 15 days ago by Phil Jones
RC Dodger

Great points Phil. It seems like pitchers are being trained to throw 100 pitches or less every 6 days. Seaver, Palmer, Ryan, and Catfish threw 8-9 innings every 4 days and never seemed to get hurt. Pitch counts were irrelevant. They also learned to pitch to hitters 3 and 4 times a game. Now the pitchers throw way less innings with much better technology but the more they get hurt. The Dodgers approach of staying away from long term pitching contracts was reasonable. But with Yamamoto, Ohtani and Glasnow signings, the team seems to be taking a different approach on the starting pitching front. Will be interesting to see how those contracts play out over the next 10-12 years.

Badger

I read (and posted I believe) a similar article a few days ago. Just another reason why I’m looking for 6 man rotations.

I too was raised watching complete games every 4 days. Gas was 29 cents a gallon then and my dad’s house payment was $109 a month. The point? Times have changed. This is the era of analytics We are not going back to cheap gas and we are not going back to 4 man rotations and complete games. The Dodgers do what they do for good reasons and with the exception of lack of success at the crap table playoffs what they do and the way they do it has been successful.

I don’t want to see any more Dodgers pitchers getting surgery. I’m fine with pitch counts and 5 inning starts. Beef up the bullpen and roll into October with healthy and rested starters.

Last edited 15 days ago by Badger
Scott Andes

My apologies Jeff, but didn’t they have a bullpen meltdown in game 4 in 2022? Wasn’t guys like brusdar, injured, trienen injured and ineffective?

Didn’t the bullpen blow games 1 and 2 of the 2021 NLCS?

Scott Andes

Nah, don’t want the last word. Im not that stubborn. difficult? yes, but im not that stubborn.

Phil Jones

Terrific post Jeff. Lots of this is newer information as pitchers get bigger, stronger and throw harder. It wasn’t long ago that the average MLB fastball was 90mph. Now it’s a tick over 93 and climbing. I worked the bullpens in many MLB tryout camps and the scouts were only interested in 90+. 89. Not interested. It was 90 or go home. And that was 15 years ago and I bet that number has gone up.
Not to many years ago Jeff Passan’ book, The Arm, intrigued me by claiming the was no scientific evidence linking pitch counts to arm trouble. Now it would seem there is solid evidence linking spin and velo to arm injuries. But I’m still not convinced that less is more when it comes to building arm strength. I still think more flat ground, long toss and new gadgets to build arm strength without incline work. And maybe a 6 man rotation?
In the YouTube Special “Fastball” it’s discussed that there is a velocity point where the human brain doesn’t have time to process and make decisions. So far, players have adjusted but at some point the speed may make processing impossible. I wonder if we get to that before every fireballer’s arm falls off?
But very interesting post and reasons for all of the arm issues.

Phil Jones

after seeing Crismatt pitch in Spring Training, I couldn’t believe it when I saw him pitching for the Big Club. And he did okay.

Singing the Blue

Lamet will shortly have the same fate as Crismatt.

Eric

I’m agreeing with a lot of what Scott Andes said. Especially prioritizing defense over offense. It shouldn’t happen. If you can even do it with unreliable defense stats.

Carrying 2 LOOGY’s, Vesia and Yarbrough, doesn’t make sense in the 3 batter minimum rule era.

Doc not allowing Outman and Lux to have their at bats against a LHP the other day in a 7-1 game in the bottom of the 8th doesn’t make sense. Both need as many at bats against LHP as they can get, to work on getting better.

But I’m not sweating the first 2 things I said during the regular season because I think the Dodgers will easily win their division. But come playoff time, well that’s a different story.

Last edited 14 days ago by Eric
Eric

Oh I forgot. I’ve never liked Joe Kelly. This is another big mistake waiting to happen in the playoffs.

Doc does Doc things so you never know.

Last edited 14 days ago by Eric
Dionysus

We probably shouldn’t have signed Kelly or Heyward but hindsight and allat

OhioDodger

Damn all the strike outs and failing to score with runners at 3rd and less than 2 outs.

Bluto

Bullpen game tomorrow. The amount of load management the Dodgers do this year for their starting pitching is going to be epic.

OhioDodger

Hey Bear, I know the 27 Yankees are considered the best team of all time. But the 36-39 Yankees and 49-53 Yankees seem to have achieved more.

OhioDodger

Too many SO’s. 10 SO in 29 AB’s. 34%. Not sustainable.

Must See

More in Dodger Baseball

65
0
Would love your thoughts, please comment.x
()
x