I do not understand this desire to rid the Dodgers of Max Muncy. All winter it was Nolan Arenado, and now it is Rafael Devers. I agree with Badger that stats can be reported to support whatever side you are on. My criterion? Is Max a problem at 3B? No. He is not elite offensively or defensively. But he is darn good. He has even improved defensively.
Max wants to be a Dodger. After two seasons where he hit .263/.391/.582/.973 with 35 HRs (2018) and .251/.394/.515/.889 with 35 HRs (2019), he signed a 3-year extension for $26MM. Those were his arbitration years, so both player and team took a chance and it was a win-win. He then signed a 1-year $13.5MM contract, followed by a 2-year $24MM. I have no doubt that he could have signed for more with his last two contracts. But he made it clear he wanted to be a Dodger for the remainder of his career.
Max does not have a no-trade clause, so he is assuming a risk that he could be traded. But he is not the problem that needs correcting.
For 6 years Max will make $63.5MM. His value over the 1st five years of that span is $94.1MM. There is a possibility that Max’s 2025 value takes him to where his value over the last 6 years is double the contract. That is not a problem that needs correcting.
Not only does Max not have a no trade provision, he agreed to a $10MM club option for 2026, with ZERO buyout. I do not think it would be going too far out on a limb to think that the Dodgers pick up that option. To put that a little in perspective, the Cubs signed Justin Turner for 1 year at $6MM. JT is 6 years older than Max. $10MM for a reserve 3B/1B and left bat off the bench is not on unwieldy price. As a reserve, he should generate a 1.2 to 1.3 bWAR to justify the option price.
With all the Arenado discussion, there was one comment from an anonymous individual with knowledge on the situation that bears repeating. At least for me.
Per Buster Olney on Nolan Arenado: “And I asked about the Dodgers about six weeks ago. And to protect the source I have to sort of phrase it this way. I was told: ‘If the Dodgers wanted him, they would have gotten him.”
Apparently, the Dodgers do not want to spend on Nolan for the next three years.
With respect to Rafael Devers, I see absolutely no reason why Boston would trade him. I believe Boston management has advised Devers in private that he could have handled the comments better. He is a plus plus offensive player, but atrocious defensively. So much so that as few games and PA that Max had last year, he had a 3.0 bWAR compared to Devers’ 3.7 bWAR. To piggyback a little on Duke Not Snider’s comment, it is more than conceivable that Max would have > 3.7 bWAR had he played a full season. This would seem to indicate that Devers’ defense is far worse than meh.
I think there is a better chance that Max stays healthy for the year than Devers improving defensively. Since he has led the AL in errors the last 7 years (led MLB in 5 of those 7), either he is not capable of improving defensively, or he just does not care to improve. He is clearly an offensive emphasis player.
As far as his teammates sticking up for Devers, we heard from 1B Triston Casas who backed Devers as the 3B and Bregman as the 2B. This comes from a player whose job basically depends on Devers staying at 3B and not moving to 1B. I am also guessing that Boston management might have advised Casas that he could have handled his comments better as well.
I agree that Devers is younger and a better offensive option. But is he $36.3MM better in 2025 and $40.5MM better in 2026? In 2025, Devers will earn $17.3MM more than Max, and if Max’s option is picked up, $19.3MM more than Max in 2026. With the 110% tax rate, that is $36.3MM excess in 2025 and $40.5MM in 2026.
It is widely reported that teams evaluate players as to how many more wins are generated with him on the roster. The above would indicate that Devers would have to be 4.5 WAR better than Max in 2025 and 5.0 WAR in 2026. Possible, but not likely, especially with his defense. Devers career bWAR is 3.7, and he has surpassed 4.0 twice (2019 and 222), and 5.0 once (2019 at the age of 22). Contrarily, Max has exceeded 4.0 bWAR three times and 5.0 bWAR once. What does that mean???
I could pontificate on the stats more, but again as Badger commented, stats can be measured to however you want to present them. My premise is that Max at 3B is not a problem for LAD. The one questionable position for me is CF. I think the Dodgers are satisfied that they can compete with Edman/Kim/Taylor/Kiké. I think they were hoping that Outman would take the reins, and he still could. But it is more likely that James needs a change of environment, as did Lux.
Will a change come with success? I have no idea. But Outman has nothing left to prove in MiLB. With Edman/Kim/Taylor/Kiké, Outman is not needed for insurance. James is probably at his nadir of his trade value. But Outman has two more years before he reaches arbitration, and 5 years of control overall. For a player who is gifted as defensively as he is, has a career MiLB OPS of .890, and is only one year removed from #3 ROY, what might a team offer for such a player.
There are at least 4 teams who could use Outman at least as a platoon CF:
- Cleveland – Lane Thomas (R)
- Houston – Jake Meyers (R)
- Tampa Bay – Jonny DeLuca (R)
- Miami – Dane Myers (R)
Toronto has Nathan Lukes (L) penciled in as the CF. Is Outman an improvement over the 30 year old with 122 career PA? Perhaps.
If there is a position to “fix”, it is CF. But it is doubtful there is a player out there who is available that can “fix” it. Try trading for a legit CF candidate in AA/AAA this year. It certainly is not Jake Vogel. Maybe SS???
FWIW, I agree with Bear. IMO the Dodgers can get younger and better (offensively) with signing Munetaka Murakami, who will be posted this winter. Although he looks to be an adventure defensively at 3B, he has 240 HRs in 7 seasons through his 24 year old season. That is an average of 34 HR/season. I think the Dodgers take a look.
Watching this Reds-Dodgers game right now. Man oh man does Outman look lost. I wanted him to turn into another Cody Bellinger after his fine ’23 season. I doubt he’ll ever have a decent MLB year again. He can’t barrel up any of the pitches he is seeing.
Wow, Outman is a mess. Taylor not looking much better. It is still early. Hoping for the best.
Here is how see it, for whatever that’s worth. Us Dodgers fans need something to bitch about that is human nature. One looks around the diamond and it’s hard to find the weak link. Cases could be made for second base or centerfield but the Dodgers will be strong in those positions once the management figures out who they want where. When they look around they see Muncy has been hurt and missed a lot of games the last couple seasons. Muncy has certainly produced when healthy.
I would think that us Dodgers fans realize we need to get younger. But while the window is open and the veterans are producing, leave good enough alone.
Well said
Much-maligned Max has knocked for two main reasons: subpar defense and too many Ks.
But the guy, when healthy, hits 35 bombs a season and also collects his walks.
Plus, he’s a better fielder than he gets credit for.
The NL didn’t adopt the DH until the ’22 season. (Seems longer ago, right? I looked it up.) When Max was first getting attention, Billy Ripken was insisting that the Dodgers should trade him to the AL. But a couple years later, Max was getting praise for his range at 1B. And he was, as they say, “serviceable” at 2B.
Before the Dodgers signed Freddie, I really want the Dodgers to get Matt Chapman to play 3B. But I’m glad things worked out the way they did.
From what I read the Dodgers’ organization is the envy of MLB and the Dodgers’ clubhouse is the envy of MLB players. Why ruin that with a me-first diva like Devers?
Dodgers getting Hays’d by the Reds.
Hays was a great pick-up by the Reds. Due for a bounce-back, and moving into a batter-friendly park.
Outman finally got a hold of one and drove it to the wall. Problem today is WAY TOO MANY STRIKEOUTS> 12 in 6 innings. Taylor(3), Muncy(2) and Outman(2), accounting for 7 of the 12.
KT3 is back. Is there a point where the utility of his versatility is surpassed by the futility of his abilities?
Looks like we’re gonna need another billion.
I’m with you OhioDodger regarding KT3.
In really don’t get it other than his bloated salary. Especially when we have so many utility pieces. With Kike’s new eyesight, he’s outplaying CT3 for far less money. I’ve said cut CT3 loose for a long time now.
So yesterday Monday was talking about CT3 scrapping his launch angle swing and trying to be more level through the baseball. I have no axe to grind with Taylor. I just don’t get it.
Here is a 34 year old solid defensive utility guy on a team with ample utility guys who is searching for a new swing. The last 3 seasons he’s hit .221/.677, .237/.746 and .202/598 with a 38% K-rate. For 15 million per season.
I’d prefer reducing our current bench prospects by one Chris Taylor and add a young power bat, like Dalton Rushing and keep Outman around for awhile and hope he gets it.
Oh yeah, and get Pages out of CF.
Rushing has yet to get a hit. Outman has one. Eddie Rosario looks like he is playing much better and he is hitting the ball hard. I don’t see Rushing doing anything except starting most of the time at OKC.
I guess I started the Devers conversation when I referenced this article:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/baseball/dodgers-blockbuster-trade-proposal-brings-rafael-devers-to-la-as-multiple-all-stars-head-out/ar-AA1zCzc7
I’m not much of a fan of a 6′ 235 pound slow runner with little defensive skills but I have to admit it would be fun to have Devers in the Dodger’s batting order. I am optimistic about Freeland and Betts on the left side of the Dodger infield. It injects a younger and cheaper player for an older player.
Jeff, that proposed trade included Taylor along with Muncy so it isn’t fair to only compare Muncy’s cost to Devers’ cost. The trade only has interest because it includes Taylor.
Just as I was giving up hope on Outman he had a 10 pitch at bat that ended with a hard hit long double. I wish Chase Utley would be hired as his Spring Training hitting coach. He looks athletic standing at the plate and the Dodgers have enough offense to live with whatever he adds to the offense.
My bench: Barnes, ?, Rojas, Kike’. I would platoon Kike and Outman and Rojas and Muncy.
I never look at this team with the thought of getting younger, I look at it with the thought of getting better.
Muncy is only a problem if he can’t play a full season. His projections suggest maybe he won’t, but, what do projections know?
It was mentioned by the booth, with the Dodgers, games don’t mean a whole lot til June. And these early Spring games only mean a lot to a few people. We know who they are. The bench already has Taylor, Kiké, Barnes and Rojas. 9 starting position players, including Edman and Kim, 13 pitchers, Is there room for anyone else?
I like working young guys into the lineup. And, I like working olg guys out of the lineup as well.
Well, Pages is young. Work him in there. Max Muncy is 35 in August. Work him out. Put Vargas in, he’s 19. Rojas is old too. Work him out, put Freeland in. He’s young. Freeman will be 36. He’s out too. Put Bolivar in. He’s 17. Barnes is 36. Out. Kershaw 37 soon. Lose him.
Wait… what’s old to you?
Willie Mays.
I don’t want 9 35 year olds and I don’t want 9 23 year olds. I want a blend and I enjoy rooting for guys trying to get their careers started.
Mays doesn’t qualify anymore.
But yours is a reasonable ask.
I’d like to see two rookies make it every year – one starting pitcher and one position player. But that just isn’t how this team is constructed anymore. How many guys in our starting lineup came up with the Dodgers? One. And he’s 30. It will likely be free agents while trading guys like Lux and Busch for guys that might actually help, or more younger prospects that might likely get traded for pros that will be free agents soon.
The Dodgers have a great thing going. They don’t need to live with young players trying to figure it out like many teams are forced to do. They’ll just go get Mookie and Freddie types to hit, and Yamamoto, Snell and Sasaki types to pitch. I just don’t see age being a problem for them.
I also like to see two rookies make it every year. Two seasons back, both Outman and Bobby Miller had good years–but then came the proverbial sophomore jinx.
This year the “rookies” are Sasaki and Kim.
I’m okay trading experienced players and hopeful prospects for younger players with high upside and lower downside. The young Dodgers I want don’t have to come up through the Dodger system.
58 K’s in five games. 11 plus per game, that is atrocious. Taylor and Outman lead the team with 5 each. Pages is 1-8 with 4 K’s. Freeland is not making this team. He will be the SS at OKC. But guys like Pages and Outman are playing their way off of the team.
Trades exist
Haven’t been able to watch any of the games yet, some of us have to work, somebody has to pay all you retired guys SS. It sounds like Outman, and Pages are going to make AF, and Doc’s decisions real easy.
I think Fred planted the Devers trade rumors through a secret connection he has in the media. 😀
Hey Keith, I hate to tell you this, but my SSA is determined by what I paid in and made, not what you pay now.
Bear, while it is determined by what you earned, it is funded by what Keith and others still working are putting in.
Do you think the government put your money in the bank? It’s been gone for years.
I was just joshing bear, everyone on SSA has earned every penny they get, I was in no way trying to say otherwise.
Muncy’s our guy.
5 games into SPRING TRAINING and some of you guys already have given up on certain players.
Wow! Tough crowd!
Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
When I see something from any of those guys, Pages, Outman, or anyone else, that looks like progress, then I won’t be so tough. But neither of them is making much in the way of contact with a thrown baseball. 9 Ks between the two, and just 1 hit apiece? The regulars are not even in there every day right now, so the scrubeenies have to take every opportunity to shine. They have less than a month before they play two games that actually count. Once Ohtani, and Freeman are in there every day along with Conforto and the rest, chances to shine are not going to be as frequent. Especially for a guy like Outman, who supposedly went to a swing factory over the winter and changed his swing. So far, the results are all negative.
Watching how he baseball journalists always make stuff up I believe this Devers stuff comes from them. Think about it. There was never any mention if Devers getting traded until they signed Bregman and there appeared to be a problem as to which one would play 3rd. So the writers thought the solution was to trade Devers. And to who? A team that needed a 3rd baseman? No, not juicy enough. The Dodgers? Yeah they’re getting everyone anyway and they’re in the news. So they start writing about it and people believe it’s a real thing. This happens all the time with every free agent,Soto,Harper etc.
Glowing article about Tyler Glasnow and the quality of his pitches in Forbes by Tony Blangino.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tonyblengino/2025/02/25/dodgers-tyler-glasnow-throws-two-of-mlbs-most-dominant-breaking-balls/
Good grades.
But they haven’t translated to GS, IP or wins have they.
Maybe this year.
Add 284 mil to the salary’s? Not happening
Totally agree with that take Dave.
Well, I for one assumed Devers would be traded. Boston signed a premier starting third baseman. Why would they do that? Where does Devers go now? DH? At 28? Of course he’s pissed. He’s an All Star SS winner third baseman in his prime. It just makes sense Boston trades him.
Wasn’t the Devers stuff from Bleacher Reports?
I don’t think the rumors start with the actual journalists so much as fans. People like us. Idle speculation takes on a life of its own.We can look up “trade values” and make fantasy deals. One of the baseball YouTubers does it all the time. It’s harmless fun.
I concocted about ten really good win-win deals for Luis Robert Jr–but AF never called to consult.
I think Cardinals fans are trying to figure out how to get Bobby Miller or Dustin May for Arenado. And we Dodger fans insist they take on Taylor’s contract.
The Guardians owner, Larry Dolan has passed away at the age of 94. White Sox consider Miguel Vargas as a third baseman. Two former Dodgers, Jack Flaherty and Kenta Maeda, are part of the battle for rotation spots with the Tigers.
Have to agree with you Bear. Muncy is not a problem. If he stays healthy, he will hold down 3B more than adequately.
Pages and Outman are blowing their opportunities to make the roster. Right now neither of them look better than Taylor and Taylor is much more versatile. It is still somewhat early, but, their opportunities are running out.
It is a shame that Taylor got HR happy. He should have modeled his game after Brett Butler. Make contact, spray the ball around and use his speed. Become an on base machine.
Ohio- I agree about Taylor. But you have to think that uppercut swing he has was taught to him by the HR or bust hitting philosophy the Dodgers are in love with. He’s in his mid-30’s and he’s been having trouble catching up to hard stuff for a couple of years now. Sadly, Brett Butler and his ilk would probably be platoon players on the team these days— not enough pop in the eyes of the Dodger brass.
Max has been a favorite of mine since he joined the Dodgers and found success.
Just a great back story–from nearly giving up to an all-star.
In those first years, he played second fiddle to Belli–but a loud second fiddle. There have been stretches that he has carried the offense. In early ’23, it was Max and Outman who were out-producing Mookie and Freddie.
I still wish that he had Chris Taylor’s agent. Somebody should tell Max that there is no obligation to give the Dodgers a hometown discount. That said, he makes no bones about bleeding Dodger blue.
The Dodgers could well pivot to Murakami next season and keep Max too. Pretty sure both bat lefty, so a platoon wouldn’t make sense.
TrueBlueLA or maybe DodgerNation just had a piece about Max’s march up the Dodgers HR leaderboard. He should pass Furillo, Garvey and Matt Kemp this season.
I found this article in SI yesterday from Tom Verducci interesting about pitching and Spring Training..
https://www.si.com/mlb/eight-pitchers-spring-training-better-stuff
Today’s starting lineup against the Mariners. Betts, SS, Edman 2B, Conforto LF, Kike 3B, Rojas 1B, Rosario RF, Barnes C, Outman CF, Ward DH, Snell P.
The latest MLB Pipeline podcast is worth a listen for dodger fans, I am out, it mentions Jaren Elkins and that Lantigua prospect. The former is a seventh round draft pick/converted running back who has been tearing it up in the complex. The latter is who the Dodgers traded for international money, who is a potential right field monster.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/mlb-pipeline/id906717198?i=1000695878961
I think it is a little harsh to judge players positively or negatively after 7-8 AB or 9-10 PA. There will be times during the season where Mookie/Freddie/Shohei/Teo/Max can’t buy a hit for a week.
If we are judging on such a small sample size, the catchers have to be Austin Barnes and Hunter Feduccia. David Bote has to start somewhere, and Zyhir Hope does not need any more MiLB. And for the I hate CT and love Kiké crowd, I guess Kiké better pick it up.
It is easy to judge Rushing because he is hitless in 4 games, but he has a .569 OBP. Doesn’t that count?
Some of these guys are working on new swings, and as Tyler Glasnow said with the pitching, you work on changes in practice and stop thinking in games. I think that is a little simplistic and easier said than done. I agree that it needs to be replicated enough in practice where it becomes muscle memory. That does not happen in 10 PA. You can have all the BP and sim games you want. But that does not equate to an actual game. Give it time.
During the regular season we abstain (or most of us do) from judging hitters until they reach at least 100 AB.
For the second straight season, the Dodgers are playing less Spring games because of starting the regular season early with games in Korea and Japan. There may not be enough time to fully get the timing down for both the pitchers and hitters. Will any LAD hitter get 40 AB’s? Last year there was 1; Mookie with 41.
FWIW, if Outman gets 2 more hits in his next 4 AB’s and strikes out once, he will be exactly where he was last year in ST and 11 AB. In 39 PA and 34 AB, his final 2024 ST numbers were .294/.385/.559/.944. That was just about what he put up in 2023 when he played himself onto the 26-man and starting CF over Trayce Thompson.
Fans are going to say players should be sent down no matter what. Especially when they get off to a rough start. Happens every spring.
Of course fans can say certain players should be sent down. They obviously have that right, but I have the right to vehemently disagree with them. To pass judgement on a player after 8 PA or 1 IP is a little short sighted or the fan made up his/her mind before ST. It is all good, and none of us have a say in it.
Per Jack Harris:
Dave Roberts left open the possibility of Hyeseong Kim starting the season in the minors, as he continues to make swing adjustments coming over from Korea
GM Brandon Gomes has also been non-committal about where Kim will begin the season
Still a lot of time left in camp before any final decisions are made, but something to monitor as the Dodgers evaluate their roster over the rest of spring
So far he has done nothing to show he is ready for prime time.
9 at bats. Give him a hundred.
9 at bats is a small sample, but it’s naive not to think of batting practices and all the other opportunities Kim has had in front of the Dodgers batting development people.
By all accounts it’s most difficult to duplicate live pitching in batting practice. The young man will need experience and there is only one place to get that. He’s already the best defensive infielder on the team, and the Dodgers didn’t pay him Major League money to put him in the minors. I believe he will hit 8th or 9th and the Dodgers will easily live with the learning curve.
The way he is going, those 100 AB’s are going to come at AAA. They only have 13 games left before the season opener in Japan.
9 at bats. Nine. That’s two and a half games worth of at bats. I say again, the Dodgers didn’t sign this kid and pay him Major League money so he could learn to hit Major League pitching in the Minor Leagues. He’s the best middle infielder on the team. I say give him time.
Why did Carson Hobbs pitch in a MLB game in the 2nd inning? Save these guys to face MiLB hitters in the 7-9 innings.
Because Calvin wasn’t available?
That’s pretty good
No, Roy is too old to pitch.
I like that also. All i can think is barley
Who’s Carson Hobbs?
Dodger draft choice from Sanford University in 2023 in the 11th round.
Another loss, 13 more strikeouts. Hoese did have a 2-run double in the 9th. Snell pitched ok, but made 30 pitches in his one inning of work.
The Athleric came out with their all under 25 team. Shockingly, no Dodger was included.
Waiting for their all over 35 team.
Bet there would be some Dodgers on their Over 25 team.
While you say Muncy isn’t a problem, I beg to differ. He certainly didn’t show up for the World Series (0-15) while Kike was one of the heroes. Muncy again is a non productive bat for 2025 along with his prior years. Muncy, Taylor, Barnes (.059 currently) Kershaw should be a relief man now. The Dodgers just hang on to non producers because of 2020. But zero contribution for 2024! 😒
Muncy is not the problem, and it is way too early to judge any of these guys. Taylor is mostly playing defense and has only had 12 at bats. Barnes has only had 19 in his six games. Rojas 34 in his 12 games. Kike is hitting .140 with 7 frippen hits in 50 at bats. Yeah, 4 of them have been homers, but he has never played well during the regular season, and Muncy has blasted 35 or more homers 4 times. He also has a career OPS of .820 to Kike’s 711. Kike’s cumulative post season OPS is .875. He has 15 homers and 35 driven in. Muncy has 13 homers,34 driven in. He is just as productive as Kike. Kike should sit out the regular season and only play in the playoffs by these stats. Max has 195 career homers, 190 of those with LA. Kike has 124. Kike strikes out in the post season twice as much as he walks. Max has 76 post season K’s but 54 walks. Twice as many as Kike. The stats do not support your argument.