This was the most disappointing loss of the year. This is a game the Dodgers used to put away. It started with Tony Gonsolin. He was staked to a 3-run lead. Gonsolin gave up back to back singles to Jake Fraley and Matt McLain. He had Fraley 0-2 and could not put him away. McLain attacked 1st pitch for a single.
Perhaps the most important PA of the night, for whatever reason, Gonsolin chose not to challenge 21 year old rookie Elly De La Cruz in his first MLB PA. Gonsolin threw a curve on the 1st pitch and got De La Cruz to chase. He would throw three more curves and a slider for balls, and De La Cruz drew a BB. I highly respect the abilities of De La Cruz, but to not challenge him in his 1st PA gives in too much, especially when your fastball is supposedly your best pitch.
Gonsolin gets strike 1 to Spencer Steer and then hits him to bring in a run. A center cut slider his smacked for a 2-run single to tie the score. It took 26 pitches to get out of the inning from a second division team with three rookies and three 3rd year players as the first six in the lineup.
The two Reds rookies, Matt McLain and Spencer Steer, are thus far outplaying the Dodgers two rookies. Corbin Carroll and Spencer Steer are the top two NL rookies and McLain will get to that level very soon.
Gonsolin pitches by inning were 26, 16, 18, 13, 19 for 92 pitches in 5.0 innings. Five relievers would follow and combined they would allow 5 runs on 9 hits, 3 walks, 1 HBP, and 1 strikeout in 3.1 innings. Yency Almonte and Brusdar Graterol allowed 2 runs on 7 hits and 1 BB in just 2.0 IP. This was not Tampa Bay, Texas, or Atlanta offenses they were facing.
Then again, the current LAD bullpen is not a championship bullpen. The only bullpens that the Dodgers have a better ERA are Washington, Chicago White Sox, KC Royals, and Oakland. This is the worst bullpen I can remember the Dodgers having.
IMO opinion, the genesis of this porous bullpen started in the offseason when AF/BG curiously said they did not need a closer. How wrong could they have been. After Tuesday’s debacle, here is how the vaunted LAD bullpen looks individually.
Over the last 6 games, the bullpen numbers:
19.1 IP, 19 runs (15 earned), 24 hits, 11 BB, 18 K, 5 HBP – That is 40 base runners over 19.1 IP. That is not a championship bullpen.
On the bright side, the offense had a good night. They scored 8 runs, and that should be (used to be) enough for the Dodgers to win. Not lose to Cincinnati. JDM hit his 10th HR in his last 15 games and Freddie hit a grand slam. It was the Dodgers 7th grand slam this year. They had 2 all of last year. Every LAD starter except Will Smith had a hit. Nobody more than 1, but did I say they had 8 runs?
The Dodgers dug deep into the bullpen (5 relievers), and Noah Syndergaard gets the start on Wednesday. Just how deep can he go in Wednesday’s game?
- Wednesday Noah Syndergaard against Brandon Williamson (Rookie LHSP).
- Thursday Clayton Kershaw against Graham Ashcraft (2nd year RHSP).
Other Notes of Interest:
This has to be the singularly worst plate umpiring I can recall. I doubt that Carlos Torres will be pleased with his scorecard on this one.
Elly De La Cruz is going to be a superstar. During the game we learned that De La Cruz has:
- The hardest throw in the field this year (99.9).
- The hardest hit ball this year (119+). He also had two 117+ MPH HRs the same game.
- The fastest runner from home to third for a triple.
His two batted balls on his MLB debut were 112 MPH double and 108.7 MPH ground out to 2nd.
After the game, Doc was visibly very upset. He blamed Gonsolin and the bullpen (save Evan Phillips) for this one. “They have to pitch better”. I am not sure what he could say, but DUH.
Okay turn the page on this stinker. Oh yeah, find a closer!!! Might as well find a bullpen while you are at it.
I blame Doc. He has all the stats and the stats say Ferguson has problems getting right handed batters out. He had two right handers in the pen. Ferguson had absolutely no business being out there in the 9th to close the game. Sloppy fielding by Max Muncy and a boneheaded decision to throw out the runner at first when all he had to do was run to third and step on the base were factors too. But this Reds team is feisty and does not give up. What they lack in talent, they make up for with a don’t quit attitude.
Ferguson has been having issues at least the last three times he’s pitched. No way he should have been pitching the ninth inning.
It was a 3 run lead against the bottom of the order. It was Ferguson’s turn. It’s not like they clobbered him. He walked three and hit another. And Miller came in needing a strike out, pop up or a ground ball and he gave up a 7 iron shot to the left center field fence.
The bullpen gave up 5 earned and only Phillips had a clean inning. Even Gonsolin gave up 4, (thanks Muncy, really dumb play).
Yep, Ferguson was awful. So was just about everyone else.
It was a 2 run lead. They had scored one in the 7th to cut the lead to two. RH batters were hitting over .300 against Ferguson and the first three he would face were RH. He pitches better to lefty’s He should not have been in there with two RH available out of the pen.
The pitching continues to collapse. Why blame Doc? Muncy continues to field poorly and I saw something in Vargas that I never noticed before. He has slow reactions at 2B. He is not quick enough to recognize and move into position to stop some routine grounders. It might also explain his poor base running and the pick offs. He was originally thought to be a 1B prospect. Will he last at 2B? Outman is already seeing restricted time, but will we see a similar fate for Vargas who also cannot sustain a consistent offensive game. The Dodgers are a lot weaker than I thought and our vaunted farm maybe in a lot worse shape than previously thought. Losing games like this show a weak determination to play at a high level. We seem to be headed in the wrong direction presently.
Vargas has slow reactions at 2B.
This is what many have been saying for awhile. I kept saying what the scouting reports were showing from observation. I am sorry, but there is a reason why Vargas was moved from 3B. Miguel is a 1B/DH, which is why FanGraphs had him rated so low early on. They got on to the hype train this year because of his 2022 year in OKC.
I like Vargas’ bat, but he is not a good defender. Anyone who says he is, is speaking from the heart. Will he get better? I do not know how you make someone quicker with the 1st step. That is recognition. Hitting him 1,000 ground balls a day will help his glove and throw. But not recognition.
Jeff, you make a good point on his pickoffs. I never thought of that, but maybe his lack of recognition and slow reaction could impact his base running. I do not know the answer. If I did, I would be in the dugout.
I blame AF. He assembled this crew and put a clown in charge.
I was sitting with my wife watching when they said Caleb Ferguson would be coming in. I looked over to her, and said this was a mistake. He was not nearly as effective against RH batters…15 hits in 48 AB for a .313 BAA.
But I agree with Badger that his poor performance had nothing to do with pitching against RH batters. His problem was total lack of control. The only hit he allowed was the hit that I think Jeff was referring to below that Miguel Vargas did not get to. Could he have? Thairo Estrada gets to that ball. The only LH batter he did face, Fraley, did not hit LHP well at all, and Ferguson drilled him on a 2-2 pitch. It was three BB and one HBP that did Ferguson in, not that RH bats hit him hard.
I do not blame Doc. He should expect that one of his high leverage relievers can get 5-6-7 batters in the REDS lineup with a 2 run lead. We will never know if Shelby Miller could have made the difference. We do know that Ferguson failed miserably on that night.
As Sam noted below, Ferguson has not been good for a while. In his last 4 games, in 3.0 IP, Fergie has allowed 6 runs (all earned), 5 hits, 5 walks, and 1 HBP. After the game, Doc did intimate that Ferguson’s tenure as a leverage reliever was going to be reconsidered.
It is not just Ferguson, but the bullpen in total, except for Evan Phillips. Sure it could be worse, it could be Oakland.
It could have been worse. That last ball landed at the fence with the bases loaded.
Hairston said the offense needs to win 12-10 games. Dontrelle said the staff knows it’s on them. They’re both right.
What now?
Pick up you’re teeth and get back in the fight.
The good news? We’re only one game out of first place.
Unacceptable.
Glad Vargas stole a base, but he is sliding, at least a step or two, to soon. He loses all his momentum with his early slide. He should’ve sliding through the base not to the edge.
For those of you who are Zack Greinke fans and also subscribe to The Athletic, here’s another great article on him.
I really wish there were more personalities like Greinke and Joey Votto in the game. They really make things so much more enjoyable.
https://theathletic.com/4571774/2023/06/07/zack-greinke-royals-strikeout-milestone/
YES!
I’ve been saying it first at DT and lately here – spin, change of speeds, location. This article talks about all three and Greinke is a master at all three.
This is the stuff coaches should be teaching at all levels. I taught it to teenagers and most could understand it. It’s just not that complicated. Basic physics A ball moves the direction it is spinning. Got that? Ok, now grip. Hold the ball like this and it spins this way. Hold the ball like that and it spins that way. Got it? Ok, get out there and do it.
As for what to do with your arm between starts, I’d ask him. He doesn’t throw 98 so his in between starts may look different. I’d say, depending on the pitcher, don’t do much of anything for 24 hours. Then run, massage, and stretch. Then run, stretch, light lift and very light soft toss. Then, massage, stretch and very light soft toss again.
It’s my opinion a pitcher’s arm is in such good shape that, like lifting, you only need to work once a week to maintain current levels of strength. Rest and recovery, is more important than throwing again.
Everyone is different. Again, I’d talk with Greinke about all of this.
Great article. Thanks Jefe.
Zack is an absolute joy to watch and listen to. He adds a huge amount to the game.
In the meanwhile, why are you preaching to a bunch of 70 year olds who will never play another inning of baseball? Get yourself out to a nearby little league, high school or college field and pass along the great knowledge you have. Who knows, you might tell a kid something that would lead to a HOF career.
I’m 75. I don’t like kids anymore. They don’t much care for me either.
I had my time. It was short lived, but I do think there were players I had an affect on. Some kid named Morris, another named Black. They both graduated from high school.
Thanks for the chuckle, i needed it.
Since ‘20, Bieber’s average fastball velocity has dropped from 94.1 to 91.2 mph, and his strikeout rate has fallen from 41.1 percent to 16.3. Per Statcast, the hard-hit rate against him this season ranks among the highest in the league
So does this mean you aren’t willing to trade Muncy for him?
I guess the determining factor will be which is falling faster, Bieber’s velo rate or Max’s batting avg?
Yes. Bieber was going to be a topic of a post for my vacation coming up. Something entitled “So You Want Shane Bieber”. Up until last winter, I was on the forefront of trying to find a trade package for Bieber. Unfortunately, the Dodgers do not have what Cleveland lacks, and the Dodgers strength is Cleveland’s strength.
Ken Rosenthal has now come out and speculated that it will not take a lot to get Shane Bieber out of Cleveland. He is still a good pitcher, just not the Ace he has been hyped to be. Right now a good mid rotation pitcher for a contending team. The Dodgers should still look at him, because he does pitch a lot of innings. 80.2 IP in 13 starts, averaging just about 6.1 innings per start.
There are no magic elixir starting pitchers out there that will be available at the deadline.
News from Internet:
RIP Iron Shiek:
LOTS of great stuff in this Jay Jaffe chat:
Farhandrew Zaidman: DeGrom is the modern day Dwight Gooden? Absurd peak, unquestionably the best in his day, not a HOF.
Jay Jaffe: He’s closer to the modern-day Koufax, but Johan Santana or Cliff Lee are more apt comparisons. Gooden had a lengthy back end to his career and did reach 194 wins and 2,800 innings. deGrom is 35 and has 84 wins and 1,356 innings, which is closer to Santana and Lee.
Chip: Is Father Time finally catching up to Justin Verlander?
Jay Jaffe: maybe. He’s had three good starts, one so-so one, and two bad ones, one of which was at Coors, but beyond that the velo and strikeout rate are down, xERA is up. Stuff+ sees serious declines in both his fastball and changeup.
I wouldn’t count him out just yet. A few weeks ago I started raking the dirt for a spot to begin the burial proceedings for Scherzer and he’s really gotten it together.
Brian C.: In the event that Judge’s stubbed toe requires the full amputation of his leg, will our insurance policy require that we seek compensation from the Dodgers for their malicious failure to Judge-proof their stadium infrastructure?
Jay Jaffe: it’s been 10 years since Bryce Harper concussed himself by running into the outfield wall in Dodger Stadium. It is more than goddamn time for the Dodgers to make it safer…
ee_rumbah: Favorite rookie pitcher thus far? I didn’t catch the Abbot start but Bobby Miller has the looks of a frontliner.
Jay Jaffe: I can’t claim anything close to a comprehensive view of all the folks people might name but I’ve been very impressed by Bobby Miller and Yennier Cano
Guest: As HOF guru, help me get past two travesties. Pete Rose was one of the greatest players of all time. His gambling came well after he retired as a player. The hypocrisy of MLB now embracing gambling sites should be the tipping point for Rose to get in. On the flip side, I can’t get past the Harold Baines induction. There must be 50 guys more deserving that got left out. How can you help prevent that from happening again?
Jay Jaffe: Rose was found to have gambled as a player. Players have been prohibited from gambling on baseball, with knowledge that the would be banned for life for doing so, since Landis handed down his ban on the Black Sox more than a century ago. Nothing MLB does with regards to getting into bed with gambling companies mitigates that one iota.
Farhandrew Zaidman: Is “WAR/GS” a stat that currently exists for SP, and if not, would it be helpful at all for the future of SP in the HOF (in the context of declining innings pitched)?
Jay Jaffe: I sometimes poke around with a WAR/200 (innings) as a cross-era comparative device. It’s worth keeping an eye on…
Remember him?
Hyun-il Choi, who missed most of the 2022 season with forearm inflammation, allowed one run on just one hit for Great Lakes today as he tossed 5.0 IP for the first time since September of 2021
Remember him, part deux
Michael Busch played his first game with AAA OKC since May 30th and made an immediate impact. 2 doubles in his first 2 at bats.
Baseball America has updated their top 100 ($$$$) Dodgers have 8 of the top 70.
https://www.baseballamerica.com/rankings/2023-top-100-prospects/
Take a guess at who they are (no cheating!)
Geoff Pontes ($$$$) takes a look at 10 young hitting prospects to get to know.
https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/ten-young-hitting-prospects-with-good-underlying-data/
Chris Newell, of the eye-popping wRC #s gets a mention.
FutureDodgers takes a look at Nick Robertson’s stuff:
Ken Rosenthal has a lovely piece with a few tidbits about the Dodgers, but I’m calling out this about JD Martinez’ return to batting prominence and the role of Van Scoyoc therein ($$$$$)
https://theathletic.com/4587934/2023/06/07/mlb-trade-deadline-phillies-astros-guardians/
So when Martinez’s former instructor and best friend, Dodgers hitting coach Robert Van Scoyoc, said the slugger fell into “a bunch of bad habits” in his final season with the Red Sox, I wondered how that was even possible for a hitter who pays such attention to detail.
“It’s one of those things when you keep looking at something over and over again and you just don’t see it,” Martinez said. “There were things I was kind of clueless to. (Van Scoyoc) was like, ‘no, dude, this is happening because of this.’ I had never thought of it like that. Just having a different set of eyes on it has helped a lot.”
Paul Hembekides notes:
Best ERA+ in MLB history
(min. 200 starts):
Clayton Kershaw (156)
Jacob deGrom (155)
Pedro Martínez (154)
Lefty Grove (148)
Walter Johnson (147)
Ed Walsh (146)
Addie Joss (143)
Roger Clemens (143)
The Athletic’s Prospect Intel ($$$$) mentions several Dodgers:
https://theathletic.com/4582858/2023/06/06/mlb-prospects-noelvi-marte-cade-horton-minors/
Austin Gauthier, DeLuca and an extended bit on Thayron Liranzo:
This is an interesting kid. He’s only 19, and he wasn’t a big bonus guy when they signed him. He’s 6-foot-3 and 195 pounds and looks durable enough to stay behind the plate.
James Anderson calls out some breakout hitters at Rookie Level in the minors
https://www.rotowire.com/baseball/article/breakout-rookie-level-hitters-72695
Thanks for these rundowns, Bluto. Always appreciate when you post them.
Since a number of us don’t subscribe to BA, maybe you can let us know which 8 Dodgers are on their list later today, after everyone who wants to has had a chance to guess.
My guess: Cartaya, Miller (unless he no longer qualifies), Stone, Rushing, Frasso, Sheehan, Busch, DeLuca, in no particular order.
Bobby Miller #10
Diego Cartaya #21
Michael Busch #51
Ryan Pepiot #52
Gavin Stone #53
Dalton Rushing #60
Emmet Sheehan #65
Nick Frasso #69
Looks like I got 7 out of 8.
Missed Pepiot and included Jonny D. I figured they wouldn’t include Pepiot because he basically hasn’t pitched this year.
Wait until DeLuca has his premier tonight. Game-saving catch. Three hits, 2 stolen bases. He’ll be on their list tomorrow.
Always enjoyed these posts and links from you Bluto over at LADT. So, I appreciate you including here as well. Tons of interesting information.
This could be an historic year for the Dodgers. Unfortunately, it will be for having the worst bullpen in their history. What a shit show….again. There’s no one to blame but the players. They had been effective in the past, so I would imagine that’s what AF based his BP construction decision on at the start of the season. But, the results have been a disaster lately. I can see both sides on whether to have a closer or not. Phillips came into to pitch the 8th to face the middle of their order and shut them down. Roberts decided on Ferguson instead Miller for whatever reason. This is a type of head scratching move Roberts makes every once in a while. But, still. For Ferguson to be that ineffective 9(regardless of them being RH) with that kind of lead is ridiculous. The one LH he faced he hit with a pitch. All the injuries to the starting staff hasn’t helped with the BP’s performances either.
I like Vargas as a hitter a lot. He has a chance to be .300/25 HR/100 RBI player in the future. But, as a fielder he is limited at best. I’ve noticed his range at 2B is awful and don’t think it will improve much at all. So, between him and Muncy half our infield defensively is below average. Such a dumb play by Muncy on that throw 20 feet over Freeman’s head.
I think there’s still plenty of time ted. There are some good arms down there and hopefully we will be getting some good arms back. Almonte is too good to have the ERA he does and Robertson might work as well.
I keep waiting for Syndergaard to improve and it’s just not happening. We don’t have the depth to replace him, so I guess he has to stay at it.
I may be the only guy who believes Vargas can play third. He can turn on a 96 mph fastball he’s got enough fast twitch to play third. And I disagree that a thousand grounders won’t help. I think that’s exactly what he needs. He’s focused on hitting to get here, now he needs to claim a position. I still don’t like him at second.
Here’s an interview on hitting with Joey Votto, the only competition that Greinke has for most off-the-wall character in the game:
Joey Votto Talks Hitting | FanGraphs Baseball
Second night in a row they blow a big lead. Syndergaard experiment should end period.
OK guys, let’s ignore the fact that we’ve lost 4 straight and are now 2 games behind the Dbacks. And don’t worry about the fact that both the Giants and Padres are starting to sneak up on us as well. This is just a blip in the season. We’ll be fine.
Yes, we lost tonight but we accomplished three things:
1) Thor has cemented his position as a former member of the starting staff. Just a matter of whether he’ll be put on the IL, sent to the bullpen or DFA’d and whether it will happen tomorrow or do they wait for Grove’s next start.
2) Jonny D. looks to be for real. Every at bat he had tonight was a good one. Two line drive outs and then he worked a walk on a very good at bat.
3) Nick Robertson may currently be our best bullpen piece. Kind of reminds me of Chris Martin from last year. He should definitely stick around for awhile and could be the closer we’ve been looking for.
See, it was actually a very positive evening, and by the way, Hudson has started a rehab assignment in Arizona. Worked a perfect inning, including a strike out.
Tomorrow’s game starts at 9:30 L.A. time, so we’ve already got a built in excuse if we should happen to lose again. Ballplayers can’t function at that time of day, especially across multiple time zones.
As Ken Minyard used to say, “EGBOK” (Everything’s gonna be OK).
Minyards.
Lumber yard, right?
We’ve got Arizona right where we want them.
Speed doesn’t slump
Socrates
I thought that was Playdough.
Taylors at bats are hard to watch. He sucks.
Define sucks.
Vacuum cleaner
I agree and yet I just read an article saying how he is quietly having a good year.
I guess it depends on what one considers to be a good year.
Depends on the player. For Taylor, I would define a good year as 2+ WAR.