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What To Do About The Dodgers Pitching

Three rookie starting pitchers (Bobby Miller, Emmet Sheehan, and Michael Grove), one bulk inning reliever (Gavin Stone), and a worn out bullpen.  What could possibly go wrong?

Did Dave Roberts make a mistake in letting Evan Phillips pitch in Sunday’s blowout game in KC?  Probably.  Almonte did not pitch well in Sunday’s loss, but it would have saved Phillips from not having to pitch.

I think Joe Davis (maybe it was Orel) who said that the Dodgers have now lost 22 times thus far in 2023 after leading late in the game. That is one more than all of 2022.  If that is not an indictment on the bullpen, I am not sure what would be.

But it really is not all of the bullpen’s fault (or Roberts’).  When your starting pitching cannot get through 5 innings, as has happened the last four games prior to last night’s,  how can a team possibly have an effective bullpen at the end of a game when needing a shutdown performance.

  • July 4 – Sheehan 3.2
  • July 3 – Gonsolin 3.2
  • July 2 – Grove 4.0
  • July 1 – Urias 3.0
  • June 30 – Miller 5.2

That is four bullpen games in a row, after an over extended bullpen was needed at the beginning of the 5 game stretch.  How can a bullpen possibly survive much less strive in that situation?

Many were calling for a youth movement.  Okay, you have one.  They could be special in 2024.  However in 2023, there are going to be a lot of hiccups and short starts along the way.  That makes it especially difficult when the only pitcher you can count on to go 6 innings is on the IL himself, perhaps because he too has pitched too many innings thus far in the season.

I know that AF was counting on a second half help for the bullpen with Alex Reyes, JP Feyereisen, and Blake Treinen.  We now know that Reyes will not be available.  Should the Doctors have known before he was signed?  With what has happened to Dustin May, can anyone believe anything about the medical reports coming out for any of the LAD players?  Especially the pitchers?

I never expected May to be able to come back (and said so often). I now doubt that the Dodgers will see Feyereisen, Treinen, Buehler, or Lux, even though all say they will be available (or working towards being available) before the season ends.  Dustin potentially may have lost 6-7 weeks on 2024 because he waited on his surgery.  Just like Buehler may have lost September 2023 because he waited.  Just like Treinen lost most of 2023 because he waited.  I get it.  Surgery is not desirable in any situation.  I have been putting off knee surgeries (replacements?) for a while.

Since the goal is to win the World Series and not the NL West or a Wild Card slot, this pitching staff as constructed cannot win the WS.  Possible?  Of course it is.  Likely?  NO!!

Has the trade value for Michael Busch gone down?  Miguel Vargas?  Ryan Pepiot?  Gavin Stone?  Probably not, but it also has not increased in value as have a lot of younger MiLB players for other teams.

That being said, every Dodger pundit and blogger (save one) believes the Dodgers need starting pitching, relief pitching, and a RH bat (if one is available).  AF is far more apt to trade for rentals.  That is who he has been.  I know I have forgotten someone, but I believe Trea Turner is the only non-rental MLB player acquired in an AF deadline trade.

I think Emmet Sheehan and Bobby Miller are untradable this year. But what about:

Michael Grove, Ryan Pepiot, Gavin Stone, Nick Frasso, Nick Nastrini, Landon Knack, River Ryan, Kyle Hurt, Peter Heubeck, or Kendall Williams.  Ben Casparius was rising until his last outing, but he too could draw some interest.  That is 11 RHP and 9 are now or were in the top 30 at some point this season.  Only Williams and Casparius are not top 30 LAD prospects.  Only Kendall Williams is below AA, and he should not be.  How about LHP prospects, Ronan Kopp, Justin Wrobleski, or Maddux Bruns.  Do not sleep on LHP Moises Brito who is dominating at DSL.  He came with Nick Frasso in the Mitch White trade last year.  I hope Brito gets a call to ACL before the season is over.  It might be fun to see what he can do in the US.

That also does not take into consideration two prospects who unfortunately had TJ surgery last year, but should be considered real prospects…RHP Carlos Duran (turns 22 in July) and RHP Edgardo Henriquez (just turned 21 on June 24).  Probably more relief than starters, but then how many true starters are we talking about in the system.  Even Bobby Miller is considered to have huge relief risk.

On thing is for certain.  The Dodgers cannot use them all.  Pick the ones that are more than likely untouchable, and package the others.  There are several pitchers at RC, or the ACL and DSL level that will become prospects in their place.

The same is true for catchers:  Hunter Feduccia, Diego Cartaya, Dalton Rushing, Carson Taylor, Jesus Galiz, Yeiner Fernandez, Thayron Liranzo, Victor Rodrigues, Angel Diaz…  The last two show some real promise in DSL.

AF is far more astute at judging talent than AJ Preller.  He does not have to gut the farm system to bring in MLB pitchers and players.

 

 

 

 

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Bobby

While you’re there, see if they’ll throw in Patrick Mahomes in any deal

Bumsrap

I am now happy with a Betts/Lux middle infield and prefer a solid righty bat who can defend 3rd. Maybe that bat is Betts should KC trade Witt Jr. to the Dodgers.

The Dodgers outfield outside of Outman are old or unproven should Betts move to the infield. Third base is old. I don’t want to trade pitching for pitching only and ignore three spots in the lineup.

Bluto

Jeff cannot, but I can do half the job he usually does:

In OKC, the Dodgers fell to the Isotopes, 5-4.

HITTING:Michael Busch reached three more times and scored a run. Hunter Feduccia reached base three times and drove in a run with a single. PITCHING:Jake Reed allowed two runs in two innings. He struck out three.Adam Kolarek tossed a scoreless inning, lowering his ERA on the season down to 1.85.In Tulsa, the Drillers defeated the wonderfully named Wind Surge, 4-1.

HITTING:Austin Gauthier led the way with two hits, a HR (11th overall and 5th with Tulsa) his OPS is just under 1.000.Diego Cartaya hit his seventh double of the season and drove in a run. PITCHING:The latest apple of my eyes is Orlando Ortiz-Mayr threw six scoreless innings with only one hit allowed. He struck out three and walked one. He was just promoted.Just off of the Great Lakes, the Loons picked up a 4-2 victory.

HITTING:Chris Newell hit his sixth homer with the Loons and overall his 20th of the season. Max Hewitt led the Loons with three hits and also drove in a run. PITCHING:Somebody has their eyes on Jerming Rosario who allowed one run in five innings of action. He struck out six and allowed only two hits.The tastefully named, Lucas Wepf struck out one in a scoreless inning and recorded his first save with Great Lakes.At Ranco C, the Quakes won a close one, 2-0.

HITTING:Josue De Paula reached base a team-high three times. PITCHING:Christian Romero threw four scoreless innings with four strikeouts. Joel Ibarra followed with three strikeouts in three scoreless innings.Kelvin Ramirez recorded his first save of the season, as he struck out four in two scoreless frames.

Last edited 9 months ago by Bluto
Badger

Thanks.

Which two arms will eat outs in the 5th and 6th innings?

Oldbear48

Go to the Negro League museum. I am going to go there sometime next spring

tedraymond

A lot to think about Jeff. It’s a frustrating time right now for the Dodgers and their fans. The list of the recent IP by the starters sums up the issues the team is having with the pitching staff. The bullpen has its own problems doing their job. To expect them to take on an additional 2-3 innings per game is not realistic.

I don’t know what the Dodgers’ expectations are from their starting pitchers. I think they should be:

Go into the game with the goal of seven innings. Say averaging 15 pitches per inning that’s 105 pitches. By what we have seen in recent years this may appear to be absurd. This should be the minimum ask by management.

The pitchers should be told that these are the expectations from the moment a prospect becomes a Dodger and a potential starter. Instruct these young prospects to be pitchers. They don’t need to throw 97-100+ MPH. Learn to pitch!!! It will help the player stay healthy, save the bullpen so they are effective when called upon, and help the team win.

I know this will not happen. But, it seems like a simple solution to a problem that is not going away. In fact, the issue of the physical destruction of a pitching staff will only get worse.

Have a great trip and visit with your family Jeff.

Carry on.

Oldbear48

Well now we know why Graterol was not used in the loss on Tuesday. He is having some arm issues and the Dodgers will be making a decision as to whether he needs an IL stint. And another one bites the dust.

Badger

I hadn’t heard that Bear, but at this point nothing would surprise me.

Miller, high octane tenacious as reported by the Times, still throws too many pitches and it appears hitters know if they remain patient he will hang a breaking pitch or tube a fastball in a hitters count. This is a valuable learning experience for him but I fear he is working too hard.

Actually this is a valuable learning experience for several young players. The final three series before the break are all against teams that, at least for the moment, are less than as far as their competition level. We’ve played them even so far and frankly under the circumstances I’m ok with that. We remain close to first as Arizona is 4-6.

Urias back today. In reading lines this morning the O/U on this game was 9 and at least one online barking bookie is taking the over. I think I would too.

As for who in our system is available for trade, depends on who outside the system is available for trade. I believe we have the offense to compete down the stretch but clearly the pitching as is will not be enough. With Buehler, May, Urias, Kershaw and Gonsolin we could beat anybody. Without them? The offense cannot be asked to score 8 every game until November.

So do I trade those AA arms for help? Again, depends. It just may be possible they are better than anyone we could get.

Bluto

Totally expect a trade for a starter and a RHB. Other than last year, they usually make trades. Only factor would be if there are artificial budget constraints, which i don’t imagine.

Dionysus

The good news is we have seen a lot of these guys at the mlb level and have probably formed some impressions.

As for Nastrini, Ryan, Hurt, Knack & Frasso . . . Be careful moving those.

Jeff Dominique

Because LAD needs all of them? Josiah Gray is/was better than all those. And the Dodgers are still thriving in pitchers.

Badger

I suspect 2 of them will go.

As you know, I’m not feeling the need for a RHB. I’ve posted the stats on what percentage of pitches are thrown by left handers and it’s my opinion our lineup of RHB’s is already better than most. If Vargas figures it out, and I believe he will, it will be even better. A veteran hitter, left or right, is always a good thing, but this year? Pitching.

Royals aren’t trading DeWitt. But they would trade pitching. They would let Greinke go and if nothing else he is eating innings better than anyone we have. Perhaps a move to a contender would light a fuse in him. Singer would be better but I doubt he’s for sale. Never know with teams like KC.

Bluto mentioned something I’ve been thinking about. The payroll. This year would be a good year to reset before Ohtani.

Sam Oyed

Greinke just went on the IL so he’s definitely a fit for this team.

There’s talk the Padres could trade Snell and Hader if things don’t improve. Not much of a Snell fan and Hader might cost to much.

Last edited 9 months ago by Sam Oyed
Bluto

Check the tape, Snell has been lights out of late.

Singing the Blue

I predict the Pads will be right in the thick of things come the deadline and will be adding rather than subtracting.

Badger

Agree.

Bumsrap

Maybe Padres will add another shortstop at the deadline.

While on the subject of the Padres let me try to stir you up Blue. Machado to the Dodgers for Muncy and Urias. How did I do as far as stirring you up?

Bogarts can move to third and Collinsworth can move from first to the outfield or middle infield. Tatis could move back to shortstop as well. Gives the Padres a leg up in re-signing Urias or frees payroll to go after Ohtani.

Dodgers get a third baseman with wrist/hand soreness that is causing him to have a down year. Still, Machado gives the Dodgers good defense at third and a righty bat.

I will let Blue or Friedman figure out who might also have to be involved in this trade.

2B Betts
1B Freeman
3B Machado
C Smith
LF Peralta
DH Martinez
CF Outman
SS Ruiz
RF Heyward

Giolito, Miller, Sheehan, Gonsolin, Kershaw, Verlander

Singing the Blue

OK, Fred, you’ve stirred me up, but not the way you expected. I’m one of the few here who is not a Machado hater. He has his faults but I would have no problem making him our third baseman with one proviso. I’d want to verify that he isn’t the one who is screwing up the clubhouse over there. Not sure how you determine that but if his effect on the other guys is either neutral or positive, I’d welcome him back.

Not a huge fan of his personality but I respect the hell out of his baseball skills. And one other thing that I admire about him, if you watch his at bats closely when a pitcher really fools him, he’ll often give him a nod of respect. I think he’s probably a bit misunderstood but I’m probably one of the few Dodger fans who thinks so.

The above was all spoken without regard to his contract which is going to bite SD in the ass in a few years. That’s a reason not to do it. They’re committed to paying him $39MM/year from age 34 to 40. Today is his 31st birthday.

So I’m saying yes to Manny but only hypothetically.

Last edited 9 months ago by Singing the Blue
Bumsrap

We agree with all of that.

Oldbear48

No on Manny. But I’ take Soto.

Scott Andes

Would love to get Snell. call the Padres ask and package something together. They’re out of the race anyways.

Badger

No they’re not. 6 games out of Wild Card.

Padres have one goal this year and that’s to beat the Dodgers. I really doubt they trade with them.

Singing the Blue

Random thoughts from a random commenter:

1) I agree with those who say that the root of all of our pitching problems is the starting staff’s inability to go deeper into games. This puts undue pressure on the bullpen. Get starters to go more innings and the bullpen will improve.

2) When Dodger management says they will examine a player and then determine whether or not to put him on the IL that means he’s going to the IL. Have a nice rest, Bazooka.

3) Doc, plus many of you say we need a RH bat. We promoted one of those a month ago (JDL) and he’s had a grand total of 28 at bats. Give DeLuca some playing time and you might find out you have an in-house solution.

4) The Dodgers will not follow my above plan (#3). Welcome, Tommy Pham.

5) Unless Andrew has totally given up on the playoffs by end July, he’ll bring in at least two starters. They may not make any difference in the long run but he isn’t going to go into August completely depending on the health of Kershaw and Gonsolin, the return to form of Urias and Thor, and the ability of unproven youngsters Miller, Sheehan, Grove, Knack and Stone to get us to the post season.

OhioDodger

Totally agree with #3. Give DeLuca an opportunity.

Play Mookie at 2B and send Vargas down. Give Busch more playing time.

Find out just what we have in house before the trade deadline.

Bumsrap

The Mets could use developmental pitching depth and probably would trade for it. Verlander is probably available and only making about $43MM in 2023, 2024, and maybe $35MM in 2025 if he pitches 140 innings in 2024.

Tommy Pham? The joy of a clubhouse?

Singing the Blue

If we get Pham (who is having a very nice year), we just need to make sure we don’t also trade for Joc.

My preference would still be to give DeLuca lots of at bats in July to see what we have. I really like what I’ve seen in his few appearances and, of course, he won’t cost any prospects.

As far as Verlander or Scherzer are concerned, no thanks. Just injuries waiting to happen and, of course, very large salaries. If the Mets pay down the contracts, large prospect cost.

Badger

Pham is hot so the Mets will keep him. I too would stick with DeLuca.

Greinke, shoulder. Forget it. Overpay for Giolito? Yep.

OhioDodger

Dodgers missed the boat when they didn’t get Verlander in 2017. Certainly don’t want either of them now at their salaries. Especially dead arm Scherzer.

Oldbear48

I would like to see them take a run at Candelario of the Nats. Decent bat and excellent glove man at third. Give em Muncy. He needs a change. MLB trade rumors has their 50 most likely to be traded list. None of them are Dodgers.

OhioDodger

I would love to dump Muncy and upgrade at 3B.

Scott Andes

Here’s a quote from Roberts that sums up the Organizations philosophy on starting pitching. This is from the latest Plaschke article in the LA Times.

Roberts admitted they were searching for possible additions.

“I think starting pitching is always helpful,” he said. “And are we looking and kicking tires? Absolutely. Talk about where we’re at on the depth chart, guys we’ve kind of gone through, guys that potentially could come back, which is still an unknown…So I think, to your question, that’s always helpful.”

I’ll tranlsate this.

“I think starting pitching is always helpful,”– This means they do not view starting pitching as valuable nor a necessity. It’s a side piece, and optional component. This is why they lose

“And are we looking and kicking tires? Absolutely. Talk about where we’re at on the depth chart, guys we’ve kind of gone through, guys that potentially could come back, which is still an unknown…So I think, to your question, that’s always helpful.”

Let’s break this down. What Roberts is saying, is they will look in the depleted farm system for more 3-4 inning “starters” before making any kind of trade. Guys we’ve kind of gone through meaning the walking wounded, and other retreads like Syndergaard or Micheal Grove. They would rather just constantly recylce those bums first, before spending money, making trades, or committing any kind of resources. “Which is still an unknown”, No Dave, it is not an unknown, it’s well known Syndergaard and Grove suck. May and Pepiot are not coming back. Maybe Buehler could be back very late in season.

“That’s always helpful”- means, we have no plan to fix the pitching staff, none whatsoever. We’ll just keep doing the same things we’ve been doing that do not work, over and over and over again.

I’ve always liked the LA Times, because they are one of the few publications that call them out on this, and do not mince words. They’re not afraid to tell it like it is. It’s this kind of thinking that is the primary reason the Dodgers lose in the playoffs every year.

Last edited 9 months ago by Scott Andes
Singing the Blue

Would you expect Roberts to come out in that interview and say “Holy crap, we’re desperate for starters and we’ll pay anything to get them.”?

I guarantee you they’ll wind up getting a starter or two. They know what their problem is but they aren’t going to sound the bugle from the highest mountain top and shout it out to the whole baseball world.

Scott Andes

They know what their problem is but they aren’t going to sound the bugle from the highest mountain top and shout it out to the whole baseball world.”

Don’t need to shout it from the mountain top with the fact that the staff is getting battered every game and giving up 6-8 runs every night. Everyone knows and can see.

I would expect Roberts to stop being a puppet and the orginization to start valuing pitching enough to actually have some during the season.

Bluto

Who knows? Maybe they will call up their top pitching prospects? Or maybe they will trade for someone like Darvish or Scherzer! That would surely imply they value starters.

Scott Andes

Nice try Bluto, but not good enough. If they valued pitching at all, they would not be in this situation and seriously considering bringing Syndergaard back to stink it up again.

Bluto

Ok!

Who can argue with the good old “if i believe in something silly it must be true” reasoning!

Surely not me nor reality.

Last edited 9 months ago by Bluto
Scott Andes

What more evidence do you need? The hoards of injury riddled pitchers they sign? guys like Syndergaard, Grove and others who can’t pitch past the 5th inning? Giving up 6-8 runs every night? Being at the bottom of the league in almost every pitching category? Stop defending Friedman.

Bluto

Who knows? Maybe they will call up their top pitching prospects? Or maybe they will trade for someone like Darvish or Scherzer! That would surely imply they value starters.

Note to Scott, that’s not a defense. It’s reality.

Last edited 9 months ago by Bluto
Scott Andes

Maybe they will sign washed up bums like Syndergaard and trot him out every single night, or maybe they will hook starters with 80 pitches and use 7 relievers every single game. Or maybe they’ll continue to sign injury riddled pitchers with multiple surgeries that will never pitch for the Dodgers (Reyes, Duffy, Feireysien, Hamels, etc.) or maybe they will have one of the worst pitching staffs in MLB all season long, or maybe they will not know who is pitching from day to day due to hoards of injuries and mismanagement. Or maybe they will shrug their shoulders and say that’s baseball and nobody is available.

THAT’S REALITY BLUTO

Bluto

Maybe!

We’ll see!

In the meantime, try to find happiness in a widely admired team 1.5 games out of first place.

It might be very hard for you, Scott.

Scott Andes

Can’t I be annoyed with the horrible pitching and losing, yet happy at the same time for their place in the standings? I’m not a vampire Bluto. But a real actual person who can have two opposing thoughts in his head at the same time.

Singing the Blue

If you don’t believe anything they say, what makes you believe that they’re considering bringing Thor back?

Teams typically have a 5-man rotation. If/when Knack gets his first start he’ll be the 10th starter on the rotation depth chart to start a game this year………….and we’re only half way through the season.

You sure seem like an angry guy Scott. Maybe you’d be happier rooting for the A’s or Royals. Lower expectations. Less stress and disappointment.

Last edited 9 months ago by Singing the Blue
Scott Andes

What makes me think they’re bringing Syndergaard back? Because they said so. They told the media he’s preparing to go on a rehab assignment and then will be “given as much leeway” to earn his spot. And the biggest reason is he’s still iin the organization.

Yes teams typically have a 5-man rotation, and yes they’re on the 10th or 11th starter. That’s the problem. you just nailed it right on the head. They have no pitching at all, no depth, Not one starter outside of Kershaw and maybe Urias can pitch into the 6th inning.

Yes I’m angry at the losing and watching the team make the same mistakes game after game, season after season. Watching them give up 7 runs per night, and then tell us Syndergaard is going on a rehab assignment is infuriating to me. Doesn’t losing make you angry too?

Bluto

This passage is really wonderful:

Yes teams typically have a 5-man rotation, and yes they’re on the 10th or 11th starter. That’s the problem. you just nailed it right on the head. They have no pitching at all, no depth

So little depth.

So much losing.

So much faith in the team.

Truly infuriating!

Singing the Blue

If he performs well, they bring him back.
If he’s the same old Syndergaard from earlier this year, they cut him loose.

Scott Andes

Look, STB,

Losing makes me angry. Especially when it’s avoidable. I think that the richest most powerful franchise in the sport should be able to piece together at least a league average pitching staff. I refuse to believe that it’s not possible.

But if you enjoy the losing, and enjoy watching them give up 6-8 runs every game, then hey more power to you. Enjoy the losing!

Singing the Blue

I enjoy watching the game. If they win, it’s far more enjoyable, but when they lose, after this many injuries, I don’t get angry, I wait for things to get better.

But for the sake of conversation, Scott, what would you have done this past off season or during the first half in the way of trades or changing the roster?

Just because I’m not ready to hang Andrew and Doc, doesn’t mean we can’t have an interesting conversation.

Scott Andes

Certainly agree with you that we can have an interesting conversation. The first thing I would have done is not sign injury prone pitchers, especially ones that are hurt and had no chance of pitching this year, like Reyes, Feyreisien (however his name is spelled) and or signed washed up guys like Syndergaard. It was pretty clear that those guys were not going to pitch and or in Syndergaard’s case was not going to effective. There were better options available on the market during the winter.

nonicnamebumfan

Actually, if Syndergaard only pitched as well as he did last year, he would’ve been more than adequate as a fifth starter as many runs as the Dodgers score

Bumsrap

A view from the dark side.

Badger

It’s all spin. No closed door club truths will ever deliberately come out of Dave’s mouth. He may leak something borderline significant now and then, but most of it is devoid of legitimacy.

Scott Andes

Just telling it like it is. it’s the truth.

Dionysus

Dude, shut up.

Scott Andes

You shut up. You’ll never shut me up.

Scott Andes

Make me😉

Oldbear48

Scott that response makes you look infantile. Challenging people on a blog is ridiculous.

Scott Andes

What about him telling me to shut up?

Oldbear48

No, saying make me. Cmon dude, that is a 4 year olds response.

Scott Andes

Yet “Shut up Dude” is so intelligent right?

Singing the Blue

Daniel Hudson has just been put on the IL with an MCL sprain.
That may be enough to end his career.
What a shame. Don’t know how he made it through the 9th last night (assuming it happened last night).

Now we can add a veteran bullpen closer-type guy to the 2 starters we’re going to get at the deadline.

Or we could just sell off all the expiring contracts, bring up all the kids, and see what we have.

Scott Andes

awesome pitching depth right?

Oldbear48

It happened on the next to last pitch. Not the same leg as last year. He is going to lose significant time.

Bluto

Hudson hurt his other knee is last nights game. Will be out a while.

Singing the Blue

I’m guessing he’ll be out forever.

Bluto

Feel for the guy and his millions!

Scott Andes

Yup, always feel sorry for multi-millionaires and their rough life.

Last edited 9 months ago by Scott Andes
Singing the Blue

So let me get this straight, just because a guy has made millions playing baseball, you can’t feel sorry for him and the fact that he may not be able to compete any longer?

Did he ask us to cry for him? Did he say that his life is over and that he’s the unluckiest guy in the world? I don’t think so.

He’d probably be the first to say how lucky he’s been to have a nice long career, but if this ends his career and it’s a knee injury when his arm is fine again, that, in my book, would be a shame.

Last edited 9 months ago by Singing the Blue
Scott Andes

Personally, I do not feel sorry for guys who make millions of dollars per year when I am struggling to keep a roof over my head. sucks his pitching career might be over, but he’ll be just fine. How about sympathy for people like me? Or the hoards of homeless people on the streets?

Bluto

One of the best strawman arguments ever!

can’t you have two thoughts in your head? That millionaires can have our sympathy as can the homeless?

Scott Andes

GTFO with that strawman stuff Bluto. stop defending millionaires. The problem is there is a lot of sympathy for rich people and little to none for poor people. Not sure what you are arguing about here. Defending the rich? Or just to annoy me? Seems like you love to do both.

Bluto

I think Scott, you need more time in nature. Away from the dodgers and computer.

You have, in my opinion, a major need for a reset.

Scott Andes

Nature? 😆

On the contrary, I need more Dodgers. And don’t need a reset. Perhaps I should start telling you what you need?

Lighten up a little. You can’t tell my tone from internet posts.

Badger

Daniel Hudson has had a relatively long, successful career. No need to feel for him. I feel for Dustin May, and to an extent Walker Buehler.

And I have no problem with giving pitchers opportunity to rebuild their careers. It’s worked before. It worked last year.

Singing the Blue

Where’s the line in life (dollar wise, success wise, happiness wise) at which you can no longer feel badly for something that’s happened to someone?

Badger

Buehler has made $16 million. He’s arb eligible next year. But even if he doesn’t come back, $16 million before your 30 is still pretty good. He also gets retirement money and health benefits. In my world, once you’ve made it to the show you’ve done well.

Singing the Blue

I guess I’m not making myself clear.
I don’t mean to lump your argument together with what Scott said above, but there are other things in life besides money and the comfort it brings.

I’m not talking or referring to the amount of money these guys have made. They will certainly never have to worry about money again. But there are many millionaires walking around who are quite unhappy.

So what I’m trying to say (and apparently saying it very badly) is that my original comments about Hudson and his potential for this being a career ending injury had nothing to do with money or his comfort with regard to however many roofs he has over his head.

I just felt badly that he may no longer be able to do something he really enjoys, even though he’s been far luckier in life than someone who is homeless. Do I feel as badly for Hudson as I do for someone who is down and out through no fault of his own? Of course not.

Anyway, let’s go on to something else. I’m feeling that I’m just not able to adequately express my feelings on this.

Bobby

STB, I understand exactly what you’re saying.

The other guy is just embarrassing himself with these childish, angry comments. Ignore .

Singing the Blue

Hey Bobby, thanks for your comment. We all know that life isn’t always fair. I consider myself luckier than most and that has nothing to do with money.

Scott Andes

Bobby,

Go back to Timmon’s Site where you can flagulate his ego, and fawn over Friedman.

Bluto

Nothing either perpetuates good conversation or embodies childish behavior like:
”make me”
go post somewhere else
or
strawmanning every dissent

Scott Andes

Those are my responses to childish comments. As in…

“Shut up dude”
The other guy is just embarrassing himself with these childish, angry comments. Ignore .”

Childish comments, lead to childish comments. Which childish comments were first?

I love how you always defend bullies like these guys and Timmons.

Stop with the Strawman stuff, it’s wrong and you sound lame.

Badger

“Money matters only to the man with a small mind, the harder thing is to do the best one can with what one has.”

Roy Goode

Careers come to an end before life does. It’s the rare and incredibly fortunate who have careers doing something they truly love.

I had a friend ask me once what was it that gave me joy. After thinking about it for a while I realized the answer was play. I’ve done a lot of it in my life. Still attempt to be playful. Never got paid for it.

Singing the Blue

Scott, if you’re around today, I’d like to continue our roster conversation from yesterday.

I asked what you would have done differently and you answered that you wouldn’t have signed all those injury-prone guys. You said there were many better options out there last winter.

OK, I hear you. Now, that you’ve said what you wouldn’t have done, please tell me specifically what you would have done. Who would you have gone after. Free agents and/or trades and if a trade who would you have offered in return?

Scott Andes

STB,

I can go back and look at who was available specifically on the open market last year. but my main point is not signing and relying on injury riddled pitchers is the first step. Health and innings count. We’re seeing not only this year, but in previous years too.

One guy who won’t be a free agent until this winter, who I would love to see them go after and get is Blake Snell. We saw him in the 2020 World Series, and he is a fantastic pitcher with a strong history of durability.

That’s an example of a starting pitcher who is effective and healthy. Someone you know you can rely upon to take the mound every fifth day. As the ooposite, guys like May and Gonsolin, you can’t rely on at all. May and Gonsolin are good pitchers, but not long for the majors due to their constant injuries and inability to provide innings.

Badger

Plaschke thinks Beiber. Why? Because Beiber is from Laguna Hills

Last edited 9 months ago by Badger
Scott Andes

Because he’s a good pitcher

Bluto

Not anymore

Scott Andes

You might want to check those numbers Bluto

Bluto

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/shane-bieber/19427/stats?position=P

His ERA is tolerable, but his strikeouts have plummeted once again and he’s allowing incredibly hard contact. His xERA has swelled. it’s hard to be an elite pitcher these days with a 17.8% strikeout rate… he just keeps getting fewer and fewer swinging strikes, he’s not inducing as many chases, AND he’s already doing the thing that informed people, which is throwing more cutters… the cutter is getting hammered (.339 AVG/.536 SLG) even while generating more whiffs. Its usage has basically tripled against righties but they’re not the ones doing the damage, while lefties are killing it despite a similar usage rate from last year.

Not anymore.

Last edited 9 months ago by Bluto
Scott Andes

It’s like I’m sitting in Math clas….FUN

But seriously, I didn’t say he was elite, I said he was good. But I don’t disagree with you that there are some adjustments to be made with him. He would still be a good addition.

Bluto

deleted

Last edited 9 months ago by Bluto
Bumsrap

This might not fit in with the main Post which I will call the “Scott”.

With that, I was glad to see Muncy hit the ball to left center field yesterday. Hopefully he will do more of that.

Urias might be back. He is needed.

tedraymond

What the hell is going on with this pitching staff? Wednesday you have Graterol declared out for shoulder soreness(?) and pitches last night. Can we believe anything this team says about injuries? Then Daniel Hudson finally returns to the mound. He’s going to be the key to the turnaround for the bullpen. In his second outing it’s a “Kenley Jansen” high wire act before getting a save. The reward for his work. He damages his other knee and is probably out for the season. Well, that didn’t take long! Why would any pitcher want to take the mound for this team right now? That being said, Urias was outstanding last night. Even the two runs scored against him were suspect because of a poor play by Peralta. Julio didn’t let the play get to him. Watch and observe Bobby Miller!

Yesterday’s back and forth by Scott and others concerning the current Dodger pitching staff got a bit heated. I get Scott’s frustration with 2023 Dodger pitching. I think most of us feel those frustrations. Before the season we usually try to ignore injuries when projecting starters and the bullpen. We know they’re going to happen, but try not to acknowledge them until the reality happens. The last time I checked the Dodgers have used 31 pitchers so far this year. Scott, when asked, didn’t have any pitching trades or FA signing he wanted to see AF do in the offseason. So, to criticize AF after the fact is a bit weak. I, too, have complained about AF’s history of signing so many pitchers (like the ones Scott listed) that are injured at signing and never throw a pitch for the team. Tens of millions pissed away. And, who could have predicted all this injuries? And, it appears that all the highly touted pitching prospects were overrated or not ready for MLB.

For Scott’s criticism that AF can’t put a pitching staff together and is the reason can’t win in the postseason I give him these stats (not frustrated thoughts):

MLB team pitching stats
2023 – #23 4.50
2022 – #1 2.80
2021 – #1 3.01
2020 – #1 3.02
2019 – #1 3.37
2018 – #2 3.38
2017 – #2 3.38
2016 – #5 3.70

Not bad for an incompetent General Manager. Just saying.
Carry on.

Last edited 9 months ago by tedraymond

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