The Dodgers had a five run lead going into the bottom of the 8th. Dave Roberts thought that Gavin Stone could give him one more inning, and if he could not, the lead was big enough to call on the pen. It turns out, he couldn’t get one more inning. But what if he could? 7.0 innings from Gavin Stone would have been huge. Instead it was a good enough 6.0 IP and two batters.
I have been reading a lot on Twitter and most have been upset that Roberts sent him back out there. This game really meant nothing. Stone was in a position to pitch 7.0 innings…in an MLB game. How special could that have been? I was more than okay with giving him a chance. It didn’t work.
Up till then, he had allowed only a 2 run HR that was a HR in one park…Fenway. It was an out in the other 29 parks. It had and expected BA .030.
This was easily his best professional outing MLB or MiLB. I do not believe the two HR’s in the 8th damaged his confidence. If they did, he has no business being considered for a ML roster spot. I think he will be just fine.
After the two HR’s in the 8th, Doc brought in Boston’s throw away reliever, Ryan Brasier, who retired the side on 16 pitches, including two strikeouts of Tristan Casas and Trevor Story. How do you think he felt after that inning…game?
The team might as well see what they have over the next five weeks. Who can they count on? Who might give them extra innings? Before I think Gavin Stone is ready for the playoffs in any capacity, we need to see what he can do in his next outing. Will it be with LAD or OKC?
Mookie started the series in this way:
For the series, Mookie was 7-15 with 5 runs, 4 RBI, 2 doubles, 1 HR, 1 K, and 1 BB. His HR was a majestic blast over the Green Monster:
The other half of the Dynamic Duo, Freddie Freeman, had a great series himself. For the three games: 7-13, 4 runs, 1 RBI, 3 doubles, 3 K, 2 BB.
Freddie now has 50 doubles in 2023. The next closest MLB player is Jeimer Candelario with 37. Mookie is actually tied for 3rd with 36. Freddie’s 50 doubles breaks Shawn Green’s 2003 LA Dodger record of 49. Johnny Frederick has the franchise record of 52 doubles he hit in 1929. I think he gets there.
In addition, Freddie is now within .009 of Luis Arreaz for the MLB lead in batting average. Luis Arreaz – .350 and Freddie – .341.
It looks like James Outman may be breaking out a little bit. I will not say he has completely broken out of his his latest slump, but it is encouraging.
OTOH, Michael Busch is struggling. Since his recall, he is 1-14, with the one being his MLB first HR. It looks like the LAD rookies down the stretch are going to come from Outman and the pitchers. Which ones, we will find out.
In other news:
Joe Kelly is still not ready to return.
The Dodgers have claimed RHRP Tyson Miller from NYM. This is the second time Miller has been with LAD. After his first time with LAD, Miller was DFA’d to make room for Ryan Pepiot. Now the Dodgers have moved Tony Gonsolin to the 60 Day IL. Miller has already been optioned 5 times, so he can not be optioned to OKC, so he is going to need to stay on the 26 man. Bryan Hudson was optioned to make room on the 26 man for Miller. Who here thinks Miller stays on the 26 man for the remainder of the season?
One day after Landon Knack was pulled after 2 innings and a trainer’s visit to the mound, Knack was placed on the IL. Maybe somebody knows what the injury is, but I have not heard as of yet. If someone else knows, please advise.
Now this is a baseball play from the hit, speed around the bases, and the throw to home. In what is being called Corbin Carroll vs Elly De La Cruz:
Two very special players that will give baseball fans joy for many years.
How are things going for Manny Machado and the San Diego Padres?
The Padres and Nationals now have the same record of 61-70. How did that Juan Soto trade work out?
Nick Frasso AAA debut was a HUUUUGE success:
He is getting closer, but just not there yet.
Yusniel Diaz is reminding many of us just how highly thought of he was prior to his being dispatched to Baltimore in the Machado deal.
How special was this moment for Louis Lappe and the El Segundo Little League team?
Stone is 6’1” 185 pounds. About the size of Buehler. A little shorter. Stone was throwing 97 last night. About the same as Buehler before he went down the first time. Just sayin
Don’t miss Verdugo. Do miss JT. But, he got more money than was being offered here.
The walkoff was fun.
Hope JD is ready by playoff time.
If Urias isn’t pitching like the ace in a month, what’s the plan?
Busch may be 1-14 but he’s had some hard hit balls. They just need to keep giving him regular at bats and he’ll be fine. I’m guessing JDM will be out at least another couple of weeks so the opportunity will be there.
I think it’s all reps for a 2024 longer look so I’m not too concerned about this year for him. I am curious where he plays in the field though, as 500 ABs await him if he can find a spot.
I’m not counting on much either Sandy. His statcast numbers are interesting. 39 batted balls this season and only 2 barrels. But his hard hit % is 46. Don’t get that one. The point is, he’s a substitute.
Agreed that this is mainly an audition for 2024. Barring injury, I don’t see Busch with a spot on the post season roster this year, but as with our young pitchers, the experience will be a good head start for next season.
Wow. Gavin Stone has had one so-so game in the big leagues and 4 stinkers and now he looks like a “keeper”?
I am always hopeful that the Dodgers’ farms system turns out real major leaguers but I have to say that the jury is out on Gavin Stone. One game isn’t anything. It might be the start of something. Or maybe not.
I agree with Jeff. I’ll be surprised if he’s not among the rotational five to begin 2024.
There was a [brief] time he ranked ahead of Bobby Miller on the prospect lists.
I think I would be surprised. Maybe he can throw 96-98 on occasion and get hitters out with spotted pitches breaking down, including that nasty change up. From what I’ve seen I have doubts about him going 6-7 every 5th day. He looks more like a reliever to me. Maybe even a closer.
Dodger pitchers are not expected to pitch into the 7th inning, much less complete 7.0. Get into the 6th and see if you can get thru it or not. If not, they are going to the bullpen. That is why I was surprised to see Roberts let Stone go back out. Pleasantly surprised. With a 12 game lead, and 33 games remaining, finding out how far your pitchers can go could be valuable information. For this year or next year. My gut tells me that even Stone was surprised to learn he was going back out for the 8th (his 7th). Could that be the reason he served up two gopher balls to JT and Duvall? Both HRs were off a 4-seamer that did not have the same movement he had earlier.
Stone has pitched 7.0 innings just once…last year in AA. He has multiple 6.0 IP this year at OKC, but no 6.0+ or 7.0. If you want the pitchers to go deeper into games, management needs to let them. LAD management would rather they go as hard as they can and then turn it over to the pen. It is their philosophy. We can agree with it or not, but it is their philosophy that they utilize throughout the system. I am sure there is a forest full of data from the nerds that will advise that this is the best way to win games.
I also thought that Stone was destined for relief, and he may still be. However, with his new found cutter, he now has 3 solid pitches, and his sinker is a marginal 4th. That gets you at least a good long look as a potential starter.
That’s a big reason why they lose in the postseason every year. That philosophy of using hoards of middle relievers. You might be able to get through the regular season (or barely since all of the relievers end up getting hurt) but it doesn’t fly in the postseason.
It is not the best way to win games, as we’ve seen in October in every year except 2020.
Every team. Every team. Does this Scott. And, to make your point accurate, almost every team loses in the post season every year.
The downside is that the team that wins in the post-season, including the Dodgers, does the same usage.
The old “every team does it” is not a good excuse. Think differently. If all the teams jumped off a bridge, would you do it too?
There are a few traditional strategies that still work, and should be followed.
Every team that made the playoffs Scott!
yes, if all the teams that make the playoffs do something , it may be of interest to emulate them?
Cant wait for this response…
Can you ever just admit that something new school maybe doesn’t work?
Your logic of “all the teams do it so it must work” doesn’t hold weight. Maybe those teams make the playoffs for different reasons and not for using 8 middle relievers per game?
I believe most talent evaluator pundits considered Stone with a higher floor at the beginning of the year, but Miller always had a higher ceiling. It seems that Miller is fulfilling his ceiling sooner than most predicted.
Correct. Some people overreacted to some of Miller’s struggles last year while Stone was looking unhittable. Nice to see Miller look like a true TOR starter and Stone get back to looking like a nice piece too.
I guess you just decided to ignore this part of the post:
The team might as well see what they have over the next five weeks. Who can they count on? Who might give them extra innings? Before I think Gavin Stone is ready for the playoffs in any capacity, we need to see what he can do in his next outing. Will it be with LAD or OKC?
I assume the only pitcher who would be a keeper for you would be an Ace, and no MiLB pitcher need apply. Clayton Kershaw was not very good at all when he first came up. Neither was Sandy Koufax who took years before he was Sandy Koufax.
I believe that it takes a deep 40 man to keep the 26 man as a contending roster. As a keeper, Gavin Stone could be considered as a front of the rotation pitcher (not likely), a back of the rotation pitcher (possibly), or a reliever (more likely). In any situation, he is a keeper. They are all needed. The bench role players and the middle relievers are all necessary on a roster. You cannot expect to plug every player on the 26 man roster as All Stars. Anyone looking for that will be sorely disappointed. Texas had the most All Stars this year, and they are cratering at the wrong time.
Every publication considers Stone a top 100 prospect, even after his poor outings early this year. While that is not a guarantee, it does indicate his skill level. It is up to him to develop that skill into a MLB pitcher, with the help of the LAD pitching gurus.
Here are two reasons why Gavin Stone has grown to become a MLB pitcher from the start of the season:
His changeup is now capable of getting MLB hitters out whereas at the beginning of the year, he could not locate it at all. Yesterday he had 5 whiffs on his change out of 14 swings. That is his out-pitch and he is now throwing it for strikes. A huge improvement from the beginning of the year.
80% of his pitches thrown are comprised of:
Not only has his change improved to a MLB level, but he got rid of his slider (he threw it once yesterday) and has been working on his cutter all season. It is now considered an out pitch. He has five pitches, but relies on three, and throws them all for strikes. Yes that is a keeper.
I’m a little biased because I like Stone and root for him but yes, I think he looked like a keeper. You say maybe yes or maybe not and I say maybe yes.
Too early to judge Stone. Let’s see how he looks by the end of the season. I like the kid’s grit though. He just kept filling up the zone.
He attacked the zone, didn’t miss many bats though. Definitely an improvement. We’ll see what he does in his next outing.
He gets outs, I care less about the K’s. Soft contact, easy plays work just as well.
We’ll take Greg Maddux 😀
I want to be clear. I have never intimated nor do I believe that Gavin Stone is going to be in the rotation come playoffs. Neither is Ryan Pepiot or Emmet Sheehan. But all three could be bulk inning / piggyback pitchers, depending on how many management wants to consider for the playoffs. They already have one in Ryan Yarbrough. So chances are MAYBE one of Pepiot, Stone, Sheehan will be on the playoff roster, but not all three. Michael Grove could also fulfill that bulk inning role.
The rotation will center on:
With the number of days off, only three will be needed for the NLDS.
I also believe that Stone needs to follow up yesterday’s game with a strong outing his next time out (LAD or OKC). But that will not diminish whether I think he is a keeper for 2024. He will be a major league pitcher in 2024. Maybe not with the Dodgers, but he will be a MLB pitcher.
All that is very clear and I never read your post as suggesting otherwise.
I think we need to rethink what a 13 member pitching staff looks like. I don’t think if starters only go 5 innings then the remaining pitchers should be at least 3 inning pitchers and preferably 4. Or, if starters go 4 innings then they should pitch every 4th day like the old days when there were only 4 in the rotation.and that would mean 4 piggyback pitchers going every 4th day as well.
Kershaw and Buehler
Urias and Sheehan
Pepiot and Stone
Miller and Yarbrough.
And 5 one inning guys
I don’t like boxes
“I don’t like boxes”
What do you put your stuff in?
I like the idea of 4 inning starters with piggyback pitchers. I don’t know how practical it is. 8 starters on the 26. Fine I guess if they all go the required 4. What if they don’t?
What if a 6 innings pitcher only goes 4?
On many teams there’s a middle reliever that gets you to the 7th. We got Yarbrough and a handful of 1 inning guys, though, every now and then we somebody go 1+.
In the meaningless stat department Justin Turner with 2.7 WAR, none of it defensively, JD Martinez 1.2 WAR, also none of it defensively.
No Dodgers pitchers are not expected to pitch into the 7th inning. Man you can say that again. No Dodgers pitcher is anywhere near the top of the league in innings pitched. Lance Lynn is 20th and he came from somewhere else.
Interesting find Badger.
Exactly one Braves pitcher, one Rays pitcher and one Dodger pitcher in the top 25 for Innings Pitched.
And they have the top, #3 and #4 winning percentage in MLB. Only Baltimore (#2) is the outlier in this scenario. I guess they are doing something right.
We slug and score runs. Second only to Atlanta in those two stats. They pitch better. Way better.
This is the way, nowadays.
Until the postseason when all of their top relievers get injured.
Tony Gonsolin to have TJ surgery on Friday. No reason for woulda, coulda, shouldas. Gonsolin will pitch next in 2025. The Dodgers will have two years of control when he returns.
He’s already proven he can be an excellent pitcher when healthy. I view this as good news. No more playing around with sitting him down for awhile with “slight discomfort” or “he felt a twinge” or total silence.
He’s probably needed something for at least a year now. Time to cut out the crap and just do it so we can have our good starter back for 2025.
Time to cut out the crap. I don’t think you understand what TJ surgery is.
Sorry to say, but the biggest mistake the Dodgers have made, or one of them has been counting on Gonsolin and May to stay healthy. Sorry, but I dont see either of them having long careers in the majors. As a matter of fact, I’ll call it right now, I don’t see either of them coming back and pitching. and if they do it won’t be as a starter. They may be able to come back and pitch in relief, but don’t see them ever staying healthy and being reliable.
The Dodgers fell in love with thos guys, yet neither of them could pitch more than 60 innings in a season. Gonsolin did it once I think, that was last year. Colin Cowherd has a saying once. “never fall in love with a player, fall in like with a player.”
The Dodgers need to stop falling in love with pitchers like Gonsolin and May, because they can’t stay healthy, ofr provide any kind of innings.
Just so I’m clear. The Dodgers should only fall in love with the pitchers who won’t get injured?
Am I speaking in Greek?
Coming in the year, the Dodgers again foolishly believed that Gonsolin and May were going to be fixtures of the rotation, yet neither of them have been able to pitch more than 60 innings in a season.
Does that sound logical?
Would you count on Pitchers that are constantly hurt?
It’s neither Greek, nor logical, nor true.
Gonsolin pitched 128 innings in 2018
80+ in 2019
67 in 2021
132 in 2022, where he was stellar.
and
106 this year.
Last time I checked all those numbers are greater than 60.
Gonsolin was constantly hurt? How (in Greek or English) do you define his career as one full of injury?
As for May, he only pitched:
134 innings in 2017
132 in 2018
140 in 2019
and
56 in COVID shortened 2020 (where he ended up in ROY voting.)
The Dodgers went into this year with Pepiot, Stone, Miller and Grove all ready in case of injuries. How many more pitchers would you want the team to have in case of injury?
I like Gonsolin, he’s been at times very good. But that split finger is known to be hard on elbows and he’s spent time on the IL because of tenderness. I’m not the only one who has said it’s only a matter of time. And the time is now.
What numbers are you looking at?
May has never pitched more than 56 innings in his mlb career. Gonsolin never more than 130. May was in singleA ball in 2018. If those guys can’t pitch more than 60-100 innings in the majors they are not starting pitchers. Period. minor league innings don’t count.
Both of them have been riddled with injuries their entire major league careers. Multiple arm surgeries for both of them. You are not speaking facts.
May tommy John surgery, then pitches 8 games this year and another major arm surgery.
Gonsolin multiple injuries, brittle as a KitKat bar, now tommy John. They can’t rely on those guys is my point. They are never healthy, nor reliable. They have good stuff, and I never said they were not good pitchers but if they can’t at least pitch more than 60-100 innings in the majors than they are not starting pitchers. Innings and health count.
Jeff, do you really believe that Gonsolin who can’t pitch more than 60 innings in a year (I think he’s done it once) has the arm/body/health history to be an every fifth day starter, or even have a long career in the majors?
If every team jumped off a bridge, I say don’t follow, because then we’d be guaranteed at the title!!
I feel like Miller has trouble recollecting himself in adverse conditions.
is this normal? Am I making stuff up?
It’s something like that. He appears to mistakes one after the other. Single single double play double. Walk, double (Muncy should’ve stopped that one, gotta dive) home run. 7 hits, 2 BB in 4 innings. Yoiks.
He has problems adjusting mid game. Hanging off-speed pitches, not hitting spots, getting upset etc. He’s got the stuff, just needs to adjust better.
We slug. We win.
Miller with 4 earned in 6 gets the W. A 6 ERA is not really great but the bullpen looked good and we score 7.
A well rested Kershaw and a 13 game lead today. Everything is good, right?