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WAR: What Is It Good For? 

Times change. Baseball changes. Stats that were the measure of a player’s value have changed dramatically since I first watched a game. One of the ways some use is wins above replacement, or more commonly, WAR.

If you go to the All-time WAR leaders, the first Dodger you find is in 67th place. Clayton Kershaw 79.3 WAR. The first offensive player you find is in 116th place, Pee Wee Reese, 68.4. Not the guy you would expect to be the one in that spot on the Dodger all time WAR leaders.

The top dog of all of them is no surprise, Babe Ruth. 182.6 career WAR. Bonds is almost 20 points behind him. # 2 and 3? Both pitchers, Walter Johnson and Cy Young. Then comes Bonds. Those four players are the only ones in history over 160 WAR.

There are thirty two players in history with a WAR over 100. Four of them spent at least one year with the Dodgers. Greg Maddux, Frank Robinson, Rickey Henderson and Albert Pujols.

The top 24 Dodgers as listed by Baseball Reference are Kersh, Reese, Drysdale, Snider, Robinson, Wheat, Vance, W. Davis, Koufax, Sutton, Cey, Rucker, Hershiser, Hodges, Gilliam, Valenzuela, Garvey, Campanella, Dixie Walker, Carl Furillo, JT, Jeff Pfiffer, Brickyard Kennedy and Welch.

Mike Piazza, a career 59 WAR player, is not on the Dodger list. But he is on the Mets list at #14. Simply because 24.6 is his number as a Met. Weird huh? Sniders career WAR is .5 points higher than his Dodger WAR. That comes simply because his last two seasons in the majors, he was nothing but a reserve. He put up very small numbers because of that.

The only way you can figure out what a player’s worth was WAR wise in a certain season is to go back and check where he was rated that particular year. I have yet to see a place where that can be done easily.

I did go back on Baseball Reference and I went year to year to see what Piazza did as a Dodger. Although Mike played for the Mets longer than he did in LA, 8 years to parts of 7 in LA. His WAR was higher in LA, 31.9. than it was in NY.  And if he had played more than 37 games his last season in LA, he no doubt would have finished in the top 24 since Welch only beat him out by one point. 32.9.

Being old school, I guess I am more than a little resistant to relying on sabermetrics. I usually use the eye test. It does not take a rocket scientist to see that Muncy’s swinging at balls he let go by in years past. We all could see Bellinger flailing away at pitches outside the zone.

Now it seems the big gauge of a player’s worth is becoming his OPS. Many have pooh poohed Muncy’s low BA simply because his OPS is .807. But think of what it would be if Max were hitting .245 instead of being under the Mendoza Line.

Max’s career BA is down to .227. And why is that, simple, over the last 4 years, including the shortened season in 2020, he has hit .192, .249, 196 and he is at .197 so far this year. His career bWAR at this point, 18.7.

His OPS last year was .713. In 2021, it was .895. It is .807 this year. Why? 55 walks in 356 plate appearances and as of today, 25 homers. Max will no doubt reach 30 again. But he also is on pace to strike out over 130 times again.

So is WAR a viable way to judge a player’s performance? The Dodgers have two players whose WAR so far this season is above 4. Freeman and Betts. Kershaw and Smith are the only other players above 3. May is next and he is out for the year. His WAR is 1.9. Muncy is seventh with a 1.6.

JD (1.4) is behind Muncy in WAR  and that is probably because JD has less than half the walks Max has and 11 more K’s.

I still value a player’s batting average because I believe hits are more valuable for run production than walks. What was good enough for well over 100 years is still a good way in my mind to judge a player’s performance. I know there are many who do not agree and that is fine. Most fans rarely agree on anything.

But I do value the input I get from those who to me dive into all the different stats. I just do not have the time or the patience to learn them all.

 

 

07-26-2023 – MiLB Game Summary Report

by Jeff Dominique

 

OKC Dodgers 13 – Reno Aces (Arizona) 11

In a game that had 24 runs and 28 hits did not showcase a lot of pitching prowess.  But there was an encouraging start by Ryan Pepiot.  Pepiot started and completed 3.1 IP and 58 pitches.  He surrendered 6 hits, no BB, 2 K, and a 2-run HR.  He still has a ways to go before he is ready for MLB hitters, but he is lengthening his outings.

Neither Jimmy Nelson and Ken Giles did not pitch well in this one.

  • Nelson – 1.0 IP, 2 runs, 2 hits, 1 BB
  • Giles – 0.2 IP, 3 runs, 2 hits, 3 BB

Recently acquired 33 year old LHRP, Ryan Sherriff pitched a scoreless inning.  1 hit, 1 BB, 1 K.

Key Performers:

  • Kole Calhoun – 3-5, 2 runs, 5 RBI, 1 BB, HR (3)
  • Hunter Feduccia – 2-4, 2 runs, 2 BB, double (16)
  • Bryson Brigman – 3-4, 2 runs, 2 RBI, 1 BB, double (8)
  • Drew Avans – double (19)
  • Steven Duggar – HR (7)

Box Score

 

 

Springfield Cardinals 3 – Tulsa Drillers 2

Springfield jumped out to a 2-0 lead after 3.0. Tulsa kept clawing back, but could never catch them.  Tulsa out hit Springfield 9-5.

Key Performers:

  • José Ramos – 2-4
  • Imanol Vargas – 2-4, 1 RBI José
  • Yusniel Diaz – double (11)

 

Box Score

 

 

Dayton Dragons (Reds) – Great Lakes Loons 5

GL had a 4-2 lead after 3.0 innings.  Ronan Kopp started and went 2.0 IP.  He allowed a 2-run HR, 2 hits, 2 BB, 4 K.  Dayton scored 8 runs (4 earned) in the 7th.  GL got one back in the 9th.

Great Lakes had 5 hits, all singles.  No GL hitter had more than 1 hit, nor XBH.

 

Box Score

 

 San Jose Giants 6 – Rancho Cucamonga Quakes 4

RC had a 4-1 lead going into the 8th.  However, San Jose scored 5 runs in the 8th for the 6-4 victory.

Key Performers:

  • Dayton Dooney – 2-4, 2 runs, 1 RBI, 2 doubles
  • Wilman Diaz – double (2)
  • Jose Izarra – double (15)
  • Livan Reinoso – 2.2 scoreless IP, 2 hits, 1 BB, 3 K

 

Box Score

 

 

 

 

 

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Jeff Dominique

Lucas Giolito and RHRP Reynaldo Lopez to LAA for catcher prospect, Edgar Quero, and LHP prospect, Ky Bush. Very expensive cost to LAA. Quero is the LAA #2 prospect and Bush #3. Both are in AA. I am sure AF was nowhere close to that cost in his offer.

Pass at that cost.

Last edited 1 month ago by Jeff Dominique
Dionysus

God bless the Halos.

Oldbear48

Well, Old AF surprised the hell out of us twice in the last two days. The trade for Kike, totally unneeded in my opinion, and then this afternoon trading Thor, who was scheduled to start at OKC, to the Guardians for SS Amed Rosario. I think that trade signals a couple of things. One. Miguel Vargas is going to spend the rest of this season at OKC. Kike will be playing a lot of second base if Mookie is not there. Two, Miguel Rojas will revert to the role they envisioned him in when they traded for him. Backup to Rosario and late inning defensive replacement. Rosario is a better hitter than Rojas even though his defense is not even close to Miguels. He has also turned things around by hitting over .300 since the start of June. He is capable of hitting about 10 homers a year and has three so far this season. Now AF turns his attention to bolstering the pitching staff.

Last edited 1 month ago by Oldbear48
Jeff

You know Bear, in the case of Rojas vs Rosario, defense may be more important to the Dodgers. Rosario may hit a few HRs, but Rojas keeping things clean in the infield is a real plus. Dodgers need a real hitter. Maybe Rojas keeps his job and Rosario is the backup. Kike seems like a boredom move. Mookie and Taylor can keep 2B in fine condition. Our team is deep. I’m more concerned with Muncy and Barnes. A bat to ball player would make a big difference at 3B and C.

Dave

I’m surprised Cleveland made this trade. We benefit by getting rid of Syndergard and even if Rosario only comes of the bench against lefties it improves us.
Regarding Vargas,he is still playing 2b.in OKC. I wonder what their plan is for him? Replace Mookie at 2nd? Trade him for pitching?
But all of these moves so far are minor, we need a quality starting pitcher!

Scott Andes

You guys, Rosario is going to be the everyday shortstop, no question. There’s a reason AF made this trade and it wasn’t just to dump Syndergaard. The Dodgers absolutely can’t continue to justify giving Rojas or Yonny Hernandez at-bats. Period. They are atrocious, dreadful hitters. I don’t mean to have a snark, but here’s their numbers.

Rojas .221/.279./268 0 home runs! 49 OPS+
Yonny Hernandez 136./231.182 0 home runs! 13 OPS+

HORRIBLE HITTERS!

Rojas is a late inning defensive replacement at best, and Yonny should probably be placed on waivers.

They also need to have some kind of bench once they reach the postseason, which they don’t have. Assuming Peralta, and Heyward are in the lineup, which they usually are, and Mookie is playing the infield, means Rojas has been at short, and Muncy at third. That means their bench consists of Yonny, Taylor, and Barnes.

not a good bench!

if Rosario is even average on defense, and continues to hit at an above average clip, that’s good enough for me. That way Mookie moves back to right field, Rosario at short and probably Kike and Taylor can platoon at second. Much better with Rojas and Yonny not in lineup.

Great trades.

Oldbear48

When Rosario joins the team, Hernandez is gone.

Dave

Actually Roberts said Rosario will play short,second and center. They acquired him to hit lefties so he will probably platoon at short with Rojas and get in the lineup at other positions.

Badger

A defender at third would make a difference as well.

Jeff Dominique

Say…Nolan Arenado?

Badger

That would work.

Oldbear48

That is why I think Rojas is a late inning defensive replacement. Rosario is far and away the better hitter and he makes the offense more potent.

Badger

We’ve had several discussions on WAR Bear, and you’ve never bought the argument for using it. What remains important to remember is all of MLB management values it.

From Little League on I heard from all my coaches “a walk’s as good as a hit”. My personal philosophy was always “don’t make an out”. Muncy is getting on at about .330 and OPSn over .800. I’ll take it, in the 6 hole.

What happened to the International Signings post?

The Angels gave up their #s 2 and 3 prospects for Giolito. I have no idea how that compares to our system but no doubt it’s down the list. I don’t believe he will help the Angels that much but can’t blame them for trying. Maybe Verlander is our target.

The moves we’ve made doesn’t move the needle much. The next few might.

Last edited 1 month ago by Badger
Oldbear48

I totally realize that front offices and all of the powers that be use it. Doesn’t mean I have to like it. I still dislike looking at so many strikes right in the middle of the plate and striking out looking. Muncy does that a lot. Then he will swing and miss at pitches way out of the strike zone. Moreso this year than in years past. That is my biggest gripe with him. Hitters used to get fined for looking at a called third strike. Protect the plate. If it is close, try to foul it off. I am very certain of one thing, Rosario will NOT be wearing # 1 with the Dodgers. Seems it is retired for some guy named Reese.

Last edited 1 month ago by Oldbear48
tedraymond

Ditto on your Muncy analysis Bear. I don’t get his approach to hitting. And, agreed, the sixth spot is where he belongs right now.

Our starting pitching is currently a nightmare. Even during the day games. I’m done with Gonsolin as a starter. I know he has to be in that role right now. But, if the team can get some reinforcements via trade and returning IL pitchers then move him to the BP. There’s no consistency from anyone of the starters. I don’t care how effective the offense might be. If the Dodgers don’t get their starters figured out then success in the playoffs will not happen. At this rate the BP will be in shambles as well.

AF – a crappy fielding SS and retread utility player. Really? Hopefully, there is a blockbuster (or two) starting pitcher coming the Dodgers’ way. There’s no way AF should be outbid with all the prospect depth he has to trade with.

Good luck.

Last edited 1 month ago by tedraymond
Badger

I agree about taking center cut fastballs. That’s the best pitch to hit you’re likely to get, so, get ugly with it. They do that early to drive the count up. I get that, but I still contend hit that pitch early and they won’t do it again.

Jessica Mendoza mentioned that in Japan taking a called third strike is considered humiliating. Chasing a third strike is bad enough, but with today’s umps you have to expand the zone. But, don’t give away at bats by taking strike 3.

Last edited 1 month ago by Badger
Oldbear48

Buckner is right up there as one of the worst umpires in the major leagues. No way that guy should be umpiring any game.

Badger

Agree

Jeff Dominique

Edgar Quero is now the #2 prospect for CWS and Bush is #5. It’s possible that if AF offered Cartaya as the primary trade, CWS would have said no, we prefer Quero. Right now Cartaya is ranked due to hype more so that productivity.

Quero is 19 months younger than Cartaya and is also in AA. In 321 PA:
.246/.386/.332/.718 – 55 walks (17.13%) vs 53 K (16.5%). He won MVP honors in the High-A California League in 2022, batting .313/.435/.530 as a 19-year-old. He is third youngest regular in Southern League (AA).

Maybe in the end, Cartaya’s production catches up to his hype and he becomes a star. Maybe not.

Bush would probably be closer to #10 than #5 with LAD.

Singing the Blue

The more I think about it the more I’m convinced that Verlander may be wearing blue by Tues. If the Mets are willing to pay half his salary and are in trade mode I think AF would part with some of our young pitching with only Miller off limits. There is so much uncertainty even for next year that AF might want to get someone who isn’t just a rental.

Bobby

If the Mets pay half, that means we’re stuck with $10mil this year and $20 mil next year?

That gives us 1.5 years of this guy. Would that cost Busch/Stone?

Jeff Dominique

Too much.

Badger

Agree to take him and pay his air fare.

Singing the Blue

Not sure if they have a crying need for Busch. I’d move Stone in that deal and add a couple of our Rule 5 guys like Knack and Hurt. Frasso would be tougher. I’d have to think about that.

Maybe Ramos would be of interest to them.

Jeff Dominique

With Gorman, Walker, Edman, Donovan, they would have zero need for Busch. I have to believe it would take Pepiot and Stone to start the ball rolling. They would need to take Muncy or Taylor to soften the cash differential. Knack or Hurt, sure. If both, that might be getting close to having one of the rental SP coming back. I would prefer Montgomery, but because of Flaherty’s potential and him coming home, he would fit just fine.

Gorman to 3B, Donovan to 2B, Muncy DH???

They have too many OF, so I doubt Ramos would be of any real interest, but you never know.

Jeff Dominique

CWS set the standard for rental starting pitcher. A #2 and #3, albeit the Angels have a poor system. I do not believe there is a front line rental pitcher, that AF would be willing to trade a combination of one of his two catchers, a top hitting prospect who is seemingly blocked (Busch), or one of the top ten pitching prospects. I think he would prefer to go with the kids and hope that Urias and Gonsolin can get better and that Kershaw comes back ready to finish strong. I think Miller’s confidence is growing, and he should slide into the #4 playoff rotation.

I, like you, believe that AF is going non-traditional. He sees no pitching he wants to spend his high end prospect capital on. He has long coveted Nolan Arenado, and I think that is who he wants. Chris Taylor and/or Max Muncy plus pitching and more pitching and more pitching yet, for Arenado and one of Montgomery or Flaherty.

If not one of the two SP, then Hicks. And get David Robertson out of NYM in a separate move.

Give Badger those 10 runs per game and let them try to outscore the Dodgers.

Bluto

I posted this elsewhere, but Friedman’s MO is both known and easy to identify.

The Dodgers are aggressive with elite talent and seek value for everything else.

I have doubts Arenado is available, and I wonder if the shadow of Ohtani makes it unlikely.

Badger

Interesting point Bluto.

It seems to me Arenado would be available if the Cardinals had a 3b in the pipeline. They don’t. Can they get one in return from us? Yeah. Muncy. I’m thinking they can maybe do better defensively somewhere else. And the trade simulator is no help on this one as they show Arenado with a negative number. His contract? That no doubt limits where he can go.

Gotta score 8.

Last edited 1 month ago by Badger
Bobby

Isn’t their young player Nolan Gorman really a 3b, who’s playing elsewhere because of Arrenado’s presence?

Jeff Dominique

Yes, both Nolan Gorman and Jordan Walker are originally 3B that have moved. But I agree with Bluto it is not a pipeline issue. The Cardinals believed they were contenders this year and due in large part to Arenado and Goldschmidt. But they will be without Wainwright, Montgomery, and Flaherty in 2024, so to turn Arenado into a couple of MLB or MLB ready pitchers might be the baseball roster construction smart move. Steven Matz and Miles Mikolas will be the only two starters remaining. They do have Gordon Graceffo and Michael McGreevy who could crack the rotation in 2024.

Bluto

I’m not sure if it’s a pipeline issue with the Cards, I think it’s more (and this is kinda distilled from what I’ve read) that he and Goldschmidt are the figureheads of that team now that Yadi and Wainright are gone.

Oldbear48

How did the Dodgers miss on Toronto’s Cabrera??? Guy has some nasty stuff and was DFA’d by the Cardinals.

Badger

I read the defensive stats on those two guys that have played 3rd in the minors. They’ve played all over because they can hit.

I agree the Cards won’t want to move Arenado.I wouldn’t if I were them.

Last edited 1 month ago by Badger
Jeff Dominique

Fielding Percentages:
Gorman – 3B – .914
Vargas – 3B – .916
Busch – 3B – .898
Walker – 3B – .891

You liked Vargas at 3B. He is the same defensively as Nolan Gorman. At 2B, Gorman is a better defensive 2B than Vargas when comparing all three defensive metrics: DRS and UZR (FanGraphs) and OAA (Statcast). Gorman is not offensively or defensively Nolan Arenado (how many are?). But I harken back to Bums question on Bobby Witt Jr. Recognizing that KC will not trade him, Bums’ question was …Should they? St. Louis cannot replace Nolan Arenado. But they also are losing 3/5 of their rotation and the two that will be returning are back of the rotation starters (Matz and Mikolas); they are already using Gorman or Donovan as the DH, and that is before Tommy Edman returns from the IL; they have too many OF needing to move one, which is why Carlson is available. They are also not happy with Willson Contreras as their catcher. Apparently their is a thing about how a catcher works with pitchers. So should St. Louis trade Nolan Arenado to facilitate their 2024 needs?

Badger

”So should St. Louis trade Nolan Arenado to facilitate their 2024 needs?”

I thought I answered that. No.

Singing the Blue

The Dodgers are aggressive with elite talent and seek value for everything else.”

The perfect analysis of Baseball by Andrew F. And generally, that strategy works.

The Cards have two excellent prospects who can play third and they desperately need pitching for next year and beyond. Arenado is getting older every year (contrary to those of us who comment here and get younger every year). The most logical move would be to move Arenado now and bring in some good pitching. They already have third base covered for the foreseeable future.

tedraymond

The Angels released Jared Walsh yesterday. To have a couple of excellent years and then to have your body go bad with some ailments that can’t be diagnosed has got to be awful for him. He sounded so frustrated with what’s happened to him. I’m not a Angel fan, but I feel sorry for the guy. To work so hard to get to where he was and then, poof, it’s over. A sad situation.

Singing the Blue

Really sad story. Hope it straightens out for him. Baseball loves a good comeback scenario.

Oldbear48

Actually he was DFA’d today. They have seven days to trade him or place him on release waivers.

Oldbear48

Carlos Santana to the Brewers. Things are heating up. Miami interested in Tim Anderson.

Jeff Dominique

Pittsburgh trades 1B Carlos Santana to Milwaukee for 18 year old middle infielder Jhonny Severino. Severino is in the Milwaukee ACL Rookie League team. He is not a top 30 prospect for Milwaukee.

Anderson’s name is popping up for a couple of teams. I still think it has to be the Dodgers or San Diego. They are cornering the market on SS.



Singing the Blue

Personally, I think we’re going to see Anderson wind up in SF.

Jeff Dominique

I doubt that Kiké Hernández and Amed Rosario qualify as aggressive. They qualify as head scratching curious. Trading away Noah Syndergaard, Nick Robertson, and Justin Hagenman is not aggressive.

The top rental SP has been traded. The two players the Dodgers are most closely tied to in the current rumor mill are Lance Lynn and Joe Kelly. That is not aggressive.

Nolan Arenado and Jordan Montgomery or Jack Flaherty and David Robertson in a separate move. Now that would be aggressive.

Last edited 1 month ago by Jeff Dominique
Badger

I was just reading Redbird Rants, just to get a possible read on what’s being said there. And what’s being said is the Cardinals can keep every one of their best, make a couple moves and come back favored to win the pennant.

Singing the Blue

That makes perfect sense since the team played well last year.
However, they’re going to lose a lot of starters to retirement and free agency and they have in-house replacements for Arenado.
So why not use him to get some pitching while at the same time freeing up payroll to play with in free agency.

Badger

Other than Wainwright, who’s retiring? And I think the St Louis payroll is under control. They can compete for free agents without having to move Arenado.

In house replacements for Arenado? Really? Like I said, I read the defensive stats for Walker and Gorman. Walker is an outfielder, period. Gorman had a fielding percentage of .914 at third. He’s far more comfortable at second.

I have no idea why it went so badly for them this year, but I’m going to assume they’ll be back next year. In fact, they could trade both Montgomery and Flaherty and be able to re-sign both in free agency if they wanted to. Unless there is something wrong with him, I really doubt they trade Arenado. It’s far more likely they continue to build around he and Goldschmidt.

Jeff Dominique

I ask again. Miguel Vargas is worse defensively at 2B than Gorman (where both were moved to), and they were just about the same as MiLB 3B defensively. If, in your opinion Gorman is not acceptable for St. Louis as their 3B, why is it okay to have Vargas at 3B for the Dodgers?

I do think Vargas will hit better than Gorman (not this year). So as long as he hits, it is okay to put a negative defensive player on the field for the Dodgers? Dodger fans are already posturing that Amed Rosario must start at SS because Miggy Rojas can’t hit. Rosario was someone I wanted in the Winter, so I am okay with it if he does start.

But I am concerned about his defense. Besides run scoring, there is also run prevention which too many people just brush aside. Not you Badger. Rosario has made 11 errors: 5 fielding and 6 throwing. Maybe Freddie helps with his throwing errors, and maybe the infield positioning can help with being in the right position for fielding.

BTW, I do agree that Rojas is offensively challenged and should be what he was traded to be. Infield utility depth, not an everyday SS.

Rosario is -0.2 bWAR and Rojas is +0.7 bWAR. Rosario has 89 OPS+ while Rojas has 49 OPS+. Rosario is a far better offensive player than is Rojas, but not enough to give him a better bWAR than Rojas. He needs to hit a lot better than 89 OPS+ to make up for that negative defense.

I do recognize and acknowledge that St. Louis seems to value defense more than do the Dodgers.

I agree with Bums. I can’t wait to see an infield of Kiké, Rosario, and Muncy. I think the Dodgers pitchers may go on strike that day. With that defense, the Dodgers are going to need to score in double figures.

Scott Andes

They’re going to need to score in double figures because of the pitching staff anyways. Unless they have a major overhaul by August 1. They’re giving up at least 5 runs every game almost, because of the lackluster pitching.

Interesting because Arenado supposedly is having one of the worst seasons defensively at third of his career. unfortunately Rojas and Yonny are such horrible hitters, they just can’t justify having them in the lineup another day. Arenado or not, Rosario is a big upgrade offensively.

I would like to see them keep Muncy at least. I know he’s only hitting .200, but he’s hit 25 home runs, and they could move him to second, keeping Kike available on the bench to play against lefties, or just to pinch-hit in the late innings. Muncy is still a legitamte middle of the order power threat.

Badger

The colossal difference is St Louis has Arenado and we don’t. We have Muncy.

Look, I’m for Arenado playing third for the Dodgers. But the more I read about it today, the more I believe St Louis would be crazy to trade him.

Oldbear48

There is a story on MLBTR that the Dodgers and the Cardinals have been having discussions about a trade for Arenado. He is willing to waive his no trade to come to LA> Whether they go anywhere remains to be seen. Ohtani hit # 37 today and got a win in the first game of the Angels doubleheader with the Tigers.

Bumsrap

The Dodgers are now a little bit better offensively against lefties as they have replaced hitters that make 8 outs per 10 at bats with players that make 7 and 7.5 outs per ten at bats. So, they no longer need to replace Muncy with Arenado.

Low supply and high demand again raises its ugly head and kept teams that might not have had to make a trade watch teams that had to make trades, make trades.

I can’t wait to watch the defense with Muncy, Kike’, and Amed playing together on the infield.

OhioDodger

I am still wondering why AF immediately signed an extension for 2024 with Rojas. Sometimes he leaves me just shaking my head. But, he is the front office whiz kid.

Dionysus

It’s called a mistake.

OhioDodger

LOL. Yep. I thought so.

Bluto

So, the LATimes and Jorge Castillo have an update. ($$$$)

https://www.latimes.com/sports/dodgers/story/2023-07-27/nolan-arenado-dodgers-trade-talks-cardinals-mlb

They indicate the Dodgers and Cardinals have engaged in talks, not sure how serious.
Going BACK to St. Louis would be a package that INCLUDES Muncy and Taylor.
This is to leave the opportunity to pursue Ohtani intact.
 Young pitching also included.

Arenado’s agent is on record as saying that reports that Arenado has waived his No-Trade ONLY for the Dodgers as incorrect.

Badger

Good read. Pitching. Flaherty and/or Montgomery are more likely.

Bumsrap

I want young top talent in exchange for our young guys but if Trading vets for vets such as Muncy and Taylor for Arenado then that works too. I’ll even include prospects.

Badger

If the Cards are looking to next year they will keep Arenado and sell us pitching. They could trade Flaherty for Gove+ and get Flaherty back next year if they really want to.

Stop trading Muncy. He’s going to go off a few more times this year. Taylor may not be necessary anymore. You can trade him if you want.

Bluto

So…Game 1 of doubleheader vs DET: Ohtani throws complete game one-hit shutout. Game 2 of today’s doubleheader: Ohtani has hit two HR and counting.

Then pulled for Cramps.

Last edited 1 month ago by Bluto
Dionysus

How many WAR was he worth today?

Oldbear48

A bunch

Bluto

Did his batting average go up or down?

Bumsrap

His JS jumped.

Jersey Sales.

Badger

Down. 2 for 8. His K rate was 37.5%.

3 back in the Wild Card. Only 3 teams in front of them.

Does anyone believe this won’t end badly?

Singing the Blue

At some point, it’s going to end well. Why not this year, just to make the Ohtani sweepstakes that much more interesting?

Just wait till Moreno gets Soto from the Pads and Verlander from the Mets. Just you wait.

And while we’re at it, steals Arenado out from under us.

And, at the very last second gets Hader and Snell………..

And Trout comes back.

And they miss the playoffs by 1 game.

Badger

What Moreno are you referring to?

Actually…. he may decide to go down in flames. I wouldn’t put it past him. But, who is he gonna trade?

And miss the playoffs by 1 game. Good one.

I think the Yankees will be buyers and the Angels won’t catch them or Toronto. Not sure about Boston. ALWC – I got Houston, TB and Toronto and would love to be wrong about Houston.

Last edited 1 month ago by Badger
Jeff Dominique

Well, one of my hopes was dashed. David Robertson was traded from NYM to Miami for a pair of position player prospects. I have not seen a report on who those prospects are. Let’s see. Would I rather have Joe Kelly or David Robertson? He was the best closer type reliever that is available not named Josh Hader, and there is zero chance SD trades him to LAD.

Jeff Dominique

The prospects going to NYM are two lottery tickets currently in Rookie ball.

Marco Vargas – 18 year old SS/3B/2B – Miami’s #18 prospect – Best tool – Hit (55) – Overall grade 45.

Ronald Hernandez – 19 year old C/DH – Miami’s #21 prospect – Defense first catcher – Best tool – Arm and field (55) – Overall grade 40

Miami has one of the weaker farm systems (#23).

The Dodgers could certainly have bettered that offer, but they apparantly like their prospects more than a potential closer. Not judging. Just stating.

Singing the Blue

Maybe they’re saving those prospects for Bednar and Hader.

Dionysus

Mets had to sell. Not surprised.

Oldbear48

Robertson to the Marlins for two minor leaguers. Another target off of the board. Trayce Thompson went 2-3 with 2 doubles a run scored and an RBI at OKC. Yonny Hernandez is back in AAA and playing third. Tulsa and the Loons lost. Nastrini got the loss for Tulsa, Brun for the loons. OKC up 2-1 in the 9th. Rancho getting hammered. Varland in for the save attempt.

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